Thread: fighting immigrants is not the solution

Originally Posted by 77

the idea is that the best tactic is to pressure the US to get the heck out of the business of other countries such as Mexico which ruins the ability of the poor people to find a livelihood there and are forced to come here in search of work. that is the idea behind "their struggle is our struggle" - because it is two sides of the same coin.

Maybe the Mexcian People should stand up to there Government, instead of asking me to stand up for them. Let them stand up to there government and LET US United States CITIZENS stand up to our. How is that 77.

Now on to a quote of yours in the first post.

Despite their obvious contributions to the US economy - or perhaps because of the very nature of those contributions - undocumented workers do not enjoy legal or political rights in this country, a travesty that could be remedied with an amnesty program

Now I will give you a quote from Steve Escoboza


Steve Escoboza, spokesman for the Healthcare Association of San Diego and Imperial Counties agrees that “at least the federal government has recognized this burden, and it’s a significant movement in the right direction.� But Ann Pumpian, CEO of Sharp Healthcare claims “it isn’t coming close to covering the costs of services we provide. San Diego County alone has given illegals more than $100 million every year.� So the problem looms large as the entirety of California will only receive a total of $70 million with San Diego only expecting to get 15% or about $10 million per year of the total amount. According to Jan Emerson, a spokeswoman for the California Hospital Association, “California hospitals provide $500 million in emergency care for illegal immigrants, seven times the amount of the federal grant.� But Emerson did also say, “This is a highly symbolic first step. The federal government is finally acknowledging that it has a responsibility to pay for heath care
provided for illegal immigrants.�

You can find more on there web site.

http://www.chcf.org/search/index.cfm

Now 77 this is only in one little section of the United States, now Multiply that. Now how is this contributing. AS for your quote on Amnesty. That is a total rise your hands in the air and give into the global corporations and to give your blessings to NAFTA.

As for your little quote on Social Security. I have searched and still going to search more, before i sink that comment. The only thing so far that i have found and what you quoted must have came direcly from
RUBEN NAVARRETTE JR. Of the San Diego Union-Tribune on 04/10/05

Ruben Navarette is a propagandist, Scub. I've read and maybe even posted some of the OUTRAGEOUS op ed pieces he's written before I TRASHED THEM!

rebecca--I can just say AMEN to everything you said!!!

Originally Posted by Bootsie

Ruben Navarette is a propagandist, Scub. I've read and maybe even posted some of the OUTRAGEOUS op ed pieces he's written before I TRASHED THEM!

rebecca--I can just say AMEN to everything you said!!!

Oh I know that, Bootsie but 77 words came directly from that on Social Security. And believe me. I have searched and Read, now over 50 documents from Social security and guess what I haven't found a thing that supports 77 claim on Social Secuirty.

I've heard the very same claims, Scub, and I've never been able to substantiate them either. If you find anything, let me know.

but we have to RECOGNIZE that these are SYMPTOMS of a root problem. unless that ROOT problem is addressed, then we will just be fighting the symptoms. and believe me, the corporate will always get their way - even if they put up a border fence or wall - be assured that undocumented workers will STILL be coming into this country through certain routes. whoever will work for the lowest wage will be allowed into the job markets.

So you have no compunction about taking American jobs....better we are left behind than you. Even though you came to our country illegally, used Social Security numbers that belonged to the American people causing them a great deal of trouble and harm. But that's OK as long as it worked out for you. You can work for a lower wage knowing that the American people will help subsidize you with food stamps, free education, free health care, free child care, free breakfasts, lunches and after school snacks for your children. All the while we are incurring higher taxes, paying higher health care premiums and much more so you can afford to live here while we pay your way.

How about you staying at home and fighting your battles there and we will do our own fighting here. Your " battle is not our battle", your "struggle is not our struggle" In fact we would not even be having this conservation if we were not overrun by so many illegal aliens, who should never have come here in the first place. All the while insisting that we should adapt to your way of life, speak your language and demanding more of our privileges.

77, I've started to answer this several times now. While you make some valid points as to WHY these people risk their lives to get here, it doesn't make their acts of aggression in stepping across the border any more legal.

You say they "have to" buy false documents. No they don't have to. That is ANOTHER crime. It's known as fraud. So now they compounded the crime. Using those false documents to get jobs and buy things is further fraud. Further compounding the crime. The longer they live here fraudulently, the more they compound their crime.

I feel sorry for their plight, as I think you intended by writing about them. I feel for their crushing blow under the heel of NAFTA just as I feel for my own people. I feel for their poverty and for their misery-- until the second they step across the border and commit that first crime called entering this country illegally. At that point, all I want is for them to be out of here and never allowed to come back. I don't want them to have time to compound their crimes.

so who is making whose country now? you think these poor people have control over their plutocratic government - they are in direct cahoots with the multi-national corporate interests who are going to sell you up the river one day too(if it hasn't already happened)? you think YOU have control over your U.S. government? who runs things???? the corporate/financial elite - they are the ones making these laws, we are just the cattle played off of one another to drive wages down into the ground. Paul Wolfowitz is smiling.

Do you think for one minute we don't already know this. Take some time to look at our archive of articles. We know all about the multi-national corporations who really run this country. We know about their plan for the elimination of the middle class. We know about their plan to erase our borders and make this one big America. That is why we are fighting these trade agreements like CAFTA and FTAA.

Your influx of illegal immigrants are playing right into their hands. Why do you think that they haven't stopped you. Believe me they could put a stop to your illegal border crossing in a minute, if it was not already in their plan.

That is where we come in....we will do everything in our power to stop illegal immigration and these trade deals that we can.
The only way they can bring Latin Americas standards of living up is by lowering ours, and that just ain't goin happen.

Besides I don't believe most Americans would subscribe to your ideas of Marxism.

77: Nobody is disputing that the government and the corporations often -- if not usually -- work at cross-purposes against the best interests of the people. We're ALL victims of forces beyond our control to some degree: famine, floods, natural disasters, etc are also factors.

But are you saying that the people THEMSELVES have no responsibility for their fate? Or for the state of their countries? Your tendency to think in yes-or-no absolute terms makes you dull-minded. I repeat:

"You made your bed, now lie in it." Likewise: "You made your country, now live in it."

Governments are not inflicted on people from above. In fact, people get the kind of governments they deserve. Barbaric people get barbaric governments. Its a direct reflection on the general level of the people.

I repeat: If people want "better lives" living in great countries, then they should build their OWN great countries. Not attach themselves like parasites to the country WE built.

This is a classic case of trying to make yourself, or in this case your situation, better by pulling others down to YOUR level rather than raising yourself to a HIGHER level. In the case of the illegals who come here, they do NOT ASSIMILATE INTO OUR CULTURE. Their sole purpose is to take jobs that Americans NEED, send their money back to Mexico, live 30 people to a house and, in MANY cases, live in SQUALOR, tap into every resource offered by our government at TREMENDOUS cost to the honest taxpayers of the United States.

If these people chose to come here to work, there are PLENTY of work visas to be had. But, THAT WOULD REQUIRE SOME EFFORT ON THE PART OF THE PERSON and they aren't willing to go the proper route. Other than taking our jobs, I don't see that they make ANY CONTRIBUTIONS to OUR country. The opposite is true in fact. They want US to conform to THEIR culture. They want US to provide all of OUR resources to them in THEIR LANGUAGE. When they move into neighborhoods, the property values plummet because they live like what they are--people from a third world country.

You have to look at the WHOLE PICTURE here before making statements like you've made, 77. The contributions that they MIGHT make vis a vis jobs are MINIMAL compared to what they take FROM US. It's not even CLOSE to a wash. If they were not such a total DRAIN on our economy, maybe employers could afford to pay AMERICANS a DECENT WAGE to do those jobs. This is AMERICA. We are NOT YET a third world country and Americans just aren't willing to live 30 to a house, live without the basic NEEDS of civilized human beings such as running water, electricity, heat. SO, all they are doing is creating situations where, in order to compete with these illegal workers, Americans are forced to lower their own standard of living. WE ARE NOT WILLING TO SACRIFICE THIS TO SAVE SOMEONE ELSE'S COUNTRY.

tap into every resource offered by our government at TREMENDOUS cost to the honest taxpayers of the United States.

That is right, Bootsie, not to mention their neighbors' cable television! That is such a problem here that they started advertising for people to turn in suspects anonymously.