Thread: fighting immigrants is not the solution

77, can't you understand that it is the American GOVERNMENT, not the American PEOPLE who intervene?

We don't WANT NAFTA, CAFTA or any other trade agreements with Central or South America.

We don't want the illegal immigrants to risk their lives to come here.

We don't want the illegals to arrive here and take jobs away from American citizens.

Why can't you understand that it isn't the PEOPLE of these other nations that we are against? We sympathize with the plight of the people. We just don't understand why, if they have the energy and wit to invade our country, do they NOT have the energy and wit to change their own?

They don't come here because they want to be Americans. They come here to escape the countries they now reside in.

There is no doubt that this massive 3rd World invasion we are experiencing is due to the elites need for low wage slaves. The trade agreements were impliminated for this purpose.
But, this does not excuse people from all over the world, illegally entering our country. Why do you assume that Americans are the world's oppressors and we owe it to every minority or oppressed group to elevate their status in society? Why cant they 'nation build' their own nations? I dont understand why their government is sending them here, while our government looks the other way.
The elites have 'pushed' multiculturalism down our throats to the point of intolerance. Illegal immigrants drive down wages and keep them low. Our middle-class is being pulled down to a lower status, and will probably never recuperate from it. Big corporations and elites are the other half of the blame. But if illegals didnt come, these corporations would have to use and pay Americans to fill their jobs.

Illegal immigrants drive down wages and keep them low. Our middle-class is being pulled down to a lower status, and will probably never recuperate from it. Big corporations and elites are the other half of the blame. But if illegals didnt come, these corporations would have to use and pay Americans to fill their jobs.

The only problem I have with this statement is that the corporations send many jobs overseas so neither Americans NOR illegal immigrants can have them. NC alone lost how many textile mills?

The end result is that the illegals who lost their jobs wind up on the public assistance roles because we can't let their children suffer the consequences of their illegal entry into this country while American middle class kids just get less all the way around when one parent loses a good job to outsourcing or has to take a job that you can't make a living wage doing.

Most low wage jobs are those that were always low. Those businesses had started to realize they were going to have to pay people if they wanted workers so they decided to get creative in their hiring practices, coax illegals into the country with paychecks as bait, and cut Americans and the legal immigrants out of the loop entirely to make them submit. Now, if an American-- native born or naturalized-- who doesn't have at least a BS, wants to work, they have to take those low wages (and in many places they have to learn Spanish in order to GET them) or sit home and let the illegals have all the jobs.

What kind of sense does that make?

Originally Posted by Acebackwords

Originally Posted by 77

Originally Posted by Acebackwords

Hey 77: If you think we don't have any "moral authority" as a nation, then why don't you get your immoral ass out of the country. I suggest you surrender your illegally-occupied apartment and all your possessions to the nearest "indigenous person" (I can assist you with the transfer). But if you're not willing to do that, then spare us your useless hot air regarding OTHER PEOPLE'S alleged lack of of morality.

i would gladly consider the claims of indigenous people to the land of the apartment that i currently live on. if there was an organized push to return the land to the rightful owners, i would have no problem with that. i would rather be paying rent to someone whose ancestors walked the land than my current landlord. there are many people in my town who have native American decent and many of these families have been poor for generations because of that first act of violation of sovereignty by the 1st illegal immigrants, so the legitimacy is there and i would not fight it.[/quote


That was the heroic words of 77. This is Ace speaking again:

What a load of horse manure. You're illegally-occupying "indigeous people's" land. Why don't you get your ass off of it and return to Europe (or whereever you came from). Oh, I forgot, your heroic speeches only apply to OTHER people, not yourself.

And by the way, these multi-national corporations -- who are the ones most responsible for exploiting other nations' "sovereignty" -- are all in favor of flooding this country with endless millions of Third World immigrants (so there's your bedfellows that you stand side-by-side with, 77 -- you and the multinational corporations). They see millions of new immigrants as just more cattle to feed on: an endless source of cheap labor, and millions of new consumers to buy their crappy products.

The ones who are being displaced to make room for these endless hordes of immigrants are the American citizens on the bottom: the young, the elderly, the weak, the crazy, the blacks, etc. These are the people that are paying the price for your deluded stance on immigration, 77.

I'm not surprised I didn't get a response from 77. What can he do? Make yet another of his phoney, hypocritical, "heroic" speeches?

Whats really funny is his endlessly stated complaint that we're trying to "pigeon-hole" him, or stereotype him, as if he's just such an original thinker that we're failing to appreciate the depth of his "wisdom." Dude, you're a CLICHE. We've heard your stale act, we've heard your stale rhetoric, a thousand times before. You really think we dont' know you and know what you're about? Gee-ziz!

Junius--I think we have some of both--some paid UNDER the table and some working for corporations and having money withheld. All of these around here who work for contractors or lawn services are paid under the table but the ones who work in our furniture factories are paid just like everyone else.

It's not only the textile jobs that North Carolina has had outsourced. It's also the furniture jobs. It's just EVERYTHING. You're right. The illegals come here, take our jobs and the few that are left are outsourced to someone else. Lou Dobbs is absolutely right when he says that the American middle class is almost obsolete.

Bootsie, the FURNITURE factories, too? Jeepers, creepers! I didn't know that. I know that because some of the same textile factories as are in NC had other factories here that they all went across the border then on to Asia thanks to NAFTA but had no idea the furniture factories were doing it, too.

You would think that it would be so expensive to send furniture across the ocean that it wouldn't be worth their while. What are the going to make it out of? Paper? So I guess that means we can look forward to not being able to buy furniture anymore that is worth two cents, either.

It makes me sick!

Originally Posted by JuniusJnr

Illegal immigrants drive down wages and keep them low. Our middle-class is being pulled down to a lower status, and will probably never recuperate from it. Big corporations and elites are the other half of the blame. But if illegals didnt come, these corporations would have to use and pay Americans to fill their jobs.

The only problem I have with this statement is that the corporations send many jobs overseas so neither Americans NOR illegal immigrants can have them. NC alone lost how many textile mills?
The end result is that the illegals who lost their jobs wind up on the public assistance roles because we can't let their children suffer the consequences of their illegal entry into this country while American middle class kids just get less all the way around when one parent loses a good job to outsourcing or has to take a job that you can't make a living wage doing.
Most low wage jobs are those that were always low. Those businesses had started to realize they were going to have to pay people if they wanted workers so they decided to get creative in their hiring practices, coax illegals into the country with paychecks as bait, and cut Americans and the legal immigrants out of the loop entirely to make them submit. Now, if an American-- native born or naturalized-- who doesn't have at least a BS, wants to work, they have to take those low wages (and in many places they have to learn Spanish in order to GET them) or sit home and let the illegals have all the jobs.
What kind of sense does that make?

When I read it back, I get confused at my own statement. What I am trying to say, is I dont want illegals coming here and taking our jobs. And I dont want to do business with a company that decides to outsource jobs to India or any other foreign country. I will not buy at big-box CEMENT EYESORES like Wal-Mart; its too big and full of cheap junk. I believe in stores that have the expertise and 'specialize' in certain products. If I buy food, I'll go to the grocery store, if I buy paint, I'll go to a hardware store, if I need clothes, I'll shop at a clothing store. But no offense to Wal-Mart employees, a store that specializes in nothing is bound to have expertise in nothing.

JJ--ALL of our furniture jobs are GONE. Gone to Mexico, China and God knows where else. If ANYTHING gets done here, it's assembly BUT they SAY they can have the stuff made overseas AND SHIPPED for less than they were paying American workers. Lexington Furniture and Thomasville Furniture have laid off THOUSANDS of workers in my county in the last 3 years. And, the really SAD thing is that there are NO DECENT JOBS to replace these jobs. It is just TERRIBLE. Almost every other house you see is up for sale so you just have to KNOW they have been foreclosed on. These people, who are not real well-educated and who have worked in furniture factories all of their lives are having to take jobs paying minimum wage with no benefits. My county is becoming a GHOST COUNTY.

When you get ready to move back to North Carolina, you can probably get a home CHEAP HERE!!!

[quote="Bootsie"] My county is becoming a GHOST COUNTY.

All the trade deals, along with outsourcing of American jobs to places like India, are literally shuting down our county and making it a "Ghost Country". Its becoming a 3rd World, unsightly, overpopulated, multicultural 'welfare country'. Maybe all of us should relocate to another spot.

I don't believe it is wrong for people with dissenting opinions to join this group or post their views. I welcome the challenge, as a matter of fact, to think through what we do and why we must continue to do it.

Forums that ban people who present what they feel are legitimate arguments presented in polite form just because we don't agree with what the writer says is sort of like being sheep who only want to listen to people who agree with us. To me, that is not fair to any of us. It is valuable to know what people who don't happen agree with us think.

I can't count how many times I've posted a heartfelt concept somewhere that people jumped all over me for it. All it did was make me dislike people who have closed minds and make me that much more beligerent to their ideas.