Thread: I have changed my mind to amnesty

Illegal immigrants are HUGE contributors to organized religion. The church understands this and they prey upon the stupidity of the poor illegal immigrant and their family members. Like all organized religion, they are nothing more than greedy. This is why all organized religion wants illegal immigration to continue.
There is a good reason for all of this. It’s MONEY AND POWER! Politicians want illegal immigration to continue because there are votes, money and slave labor. Organized religion wants illegal immigration to continue because they can gain huge financial profits.
We have all heard that Money is the root of all evil at one time or another, and money is a major motivator behind illegal immigration. The people you see on the news every day, waving their mexican flags and screaming about what they think they are entitled to, CITIZENSHIP, don't realize that they are simply pawns in this plan for money, votes, and churches wanting more members, yes for more money. Both the church and the government are turning a blind eye to this issue because they stand to profit from it.
Chruches are TAX FREE ORGANIZATIONS....but did you know that these tax free organizations are heavily vested in the stock market and real estate. Most of them are buying and selling energy futures and making a fortune ….. TAX FREE!!! they are up to all kinds of shenanigans with your money by passing the plate around on Sunday morning. More than the corporations, more than the government, no one benefits more from illegal immigration than organized religion. The church knows that people from south of the border tend to be both religious and superstitious. They use their guilt tactics to saddle people that are already living below the poverty line with more bills. YES THAT IS WHAT TITHING IS. Their goal is to dupe as many people out of as much money as possible. Like sheep, people line up to hand over their money to a church that would just as soon turn their back on them if the money flow stopped.
Now don't get me wrong, I am a Christian, I do believe in God very strongly and have had a Christian up bringing. But when the church
tells me it is wrong to be against illegals coming across our borders and they blatantly break our laws by hiding them that is the last straw. I don't care if it were an order from the top church official of any chruch telling me it was my duty to follow the churches position on illegal immigration, the buck would stop there, then you would see how much they really cared for me when I would drop a note in the collection plate telling them until they follow the rules of the United States and stop protecting illegals they will get no money from me....just like I told the Republican party.

I vote A. At least he speaks English.

It is fine to have your view. Just make sure you are dealing with facts and not opinions and feelings. The law does not operate on opinions and feelings even though it would be much more comfortable for criminals and those that associate with them.

I have your back, but I think we are outnumbered.

Trouble@PleaseMoveOn.Com

I am just waiting for the latest email message saying that I will be punished if I don't support illegals and that I have to forward the email message to ten people, unless I want the wrath of God upon me.

Illegal immigrants are HUGE contributors to organized religion. The church understands this and they prey upon the stupidity of the poor illegal immigrant and their family members. Like all organized religion, they are nothing more than greedy. This is why all organized religion wants illegal immigration to continue.

I don't think the facts support this.

By organized religion, maybe you mean the Roman Catholic Church.

But there are thousands upon thousands of small churches in the U.S, baptist, presbyterian, evangelical lutheran, etc.

Most of those churches in no way benefit from Illegal Immigration or immigrants.

Most of the people in those Churches are the backbone of the movement to STOP Illegal Immigration.

The reason those churches are tax-exempt is because those are your neighbors who have ALREADY paid their taxes, and it is the Job of the government to stay OUT of the business of trying to organize, control or tax religion. That comes with the territory of having Freedom of Speech,

and the reason for this comes from when the English Government used the Church as a tool for its own uses, and against the people IN the churches. The solution was to get the Government out of the business of trying to regulate the spiritual matters of people.

Many people I know go to church, (I go sometimes) and almost all those that I know are TOTALLY AGAINST illegal Immigration.

On top of that, most Pastors are very sensitive to Illegal Immigration because they know that Less Jobs in the community will hurt the families that are already in the Church.

You Could argue that the churches want the Illegals to come up to the U.S. so that they can witness or try to evangelize them.

No, on the contrary, American Churches send thousands and thousands of dollars to Mexico every year, in the form of VOLUNTEER MISSIONS to go down to Mexico, set up soup kitchens, and show people how Christianity can help them. BUT THEY DO THIS IN MEXICO.


There are SOME Higher Denominations (Episcopalians, Unitarians, Universalists) who are Liberal, and the rule of thumb is that a "liberal" kind of theology leads to a Liberal kind of Politics.

If a person takes the Bible literally, they are usually trying to help others AND they are usually conservative AND ANTI-ILLEGAL INVASION.

On the other hand, if a church is NOT taking the Bible Literally, and uses the Church just for some kind of SOCIAL club, THOSE are the kinds of Churches that end up promoting the Illegal Invasion.

But by and large, 85% of Churches in the USA are conservative and ANTI-ILLEGAL.


===

By the way, it is easy to be confused about the nature of Church Structure, thinking that its about Money.

Most Denominations are NOT organized like the Catholic Church.

That means that the money does NOT go to one centralized place.

Most of the churches MAY affiliate with one denomination or another, but the Money that is given in the services to those churches stays LOCAL.

IT is for local use, for the expense of the church, for paying utility bills, and for helping the people in the community.

Local Churches means LOCAL control. And the whole point about setting up the various Protestant denominations was all about making sure that Power does NOT get concentrated in the hands of a few, as opposed to the formal Church Structure of the Catholic Church, or the Often Corrupt State Church of England (Anglicans).


Finally most churches do NOT invest their funds. They never have enough funds to do this. Most of the churches use the funds to pay expenses directly. Very few churches have pension or retirement plans of any kind.

There may be the occasional church that does, but that is very much the 1% exception than the rule.


GH

Well to be honest I was referring to the Catholic Church but did not want to start a commotion about that.

Well to be honest I was referring to the Catholic Church but did not want to start a commotion about that.

I understand and they do have a great deal of funds that they do invest. They are also the only Church with the status - legally - of a Nation-State.
Vatican officials have official embassies in almost every nation in the world, and their employees have official diplomatic status. They also already have reciprocal agreements between the Vatican and many of these Central American nations. So not only do they have simply the functions of their respective congregations, they also have official foreign policy positions that they take on certain issues.

One of these issues is the Illegal Invasion into the U.S.

It is worth wondering why the Official position of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops would be in support of an Illegal Invasion policy that:

1. Makes a mockery of U.S. Law

2. Continues to leave the position of the Mexican Poor in Mexico Totally unaddressed.

3. Demonstrates a disregard for the people in Mexico to be able to effect change in the Political Structure in their own country, and

4. Will have a continued effect of encouraging and growing Narco-Trafficking control of the Government of Mexico.


No one wants to make the issue of Vatican Policy an issue, but maybe it would be time for Catholics to start addressing this with their own Bishops.

One of the things that the Catholic Bishops have responded to in the past was when Donations fell (over the child abuse scandals). And yet those scandals - bad as they were - affected far fewer people than the Illegal Invasion.

If ONE THIRD of the Criminals in Prisons are ILLEGAL INVASION Criminals, that means that Hundreds of Thousands of actions were taken to harm and hurt Everyday ordinary Americans.


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You must be a follower!


"Some follow, some lead. Making up one's mind due to the sway and opinion of others is not being one's own self. I listen, read, explore, and decide for myself. I don't take someone else's educated guess or am swayed by the popular opinion. That's why the President is having so much problem by not leading, he is following."


Judy -

Who are you calling a follower??

I think that is a thinly veiled insult. It makes it seem that you feel you are superior because you believe you are a leader.

People, including those that don't have your point of view are entitled to ANY opinion, including changing their mind on that very opinion.

Unless you were born in a VACUUM, you too, were influenced by outside sources. You say you "listen, read, explore, and decide". Aren't others entitled to those same sources of education? Even if they 100% disagree with you??

You, Judy, say you follow a certain criteria, and you deem yourself a "leader".

Someone else follows YOUR very same criteria and you deem them "a follower".

Could that be somewhat misguided, smug, and a tiny bit hypocritical? Let's see. Hmmmm.

Originally Posted by bootsalinda

Bush is using the fact that he is a good Christian to promote doing the right thing for Illegals. I heard him speak that language last night as he took a ride in a dune buggy at the border. He is trying to sway all Christians with that arguement.

This is why I believe it is odd to throw religion into the mix on this issue, regardless of what I believe. There are many varying interpretations of the Bible and Churches that practice there own brand of Christianity. I like the idea of freedom to worship the one you wish.

Mexican Illegals are Christian too, and look at their behaviour - they know they are being dishonest.

I find it funny that you all are preaching to me. I am not going to speak of my belief system on this forum. I sure as heck ain't going to "Witness".

Know this- I have no problem with Christianity. You don't need to shove it down my throat. I don't get my spiritual opinions, or opinions on extreme views from the Media or the Politicians who use it as a smoke screen to push their issues for the "good of the people."

I like the idea of Separation of Church and State. Then the waters (issues)don't get muddied. A lot of Politicians using Christian Rhetoric to drum up votes, when they don't exhibit an ounce of Christian Values and Ideals.

Separation of Church and state was such a "good idea" that it played no role whatsoever in American history until our first Klansman Supreme Court justice, Hugo Black, suddenly "discovered" that it had been a guiding principle that no one had noticed for the first 150 years of the Union. Prior to Black's "discovery" of this mystery guiding principle, the only prohibition on government regarding religion is that the federal government was prohibited from establishing an official sect. Note that the prohibition had never affected the states, and that several of the states did in fact have official state denominations for decades after the formation of the union, but that these were dropped for practical rather than legal reasons.

More important, however, is the fact that the prohibition of federal meddling in religion guarnteed by the Bill of Rights was meant to be a one-sided affair. That's why the verbiage in Amendment I is clear when it states that "Congress shall make no law..."

This was not to in any way limit the role of the churches or of religion on public life, nor was it to apply to the states and municipalities. Chalk another perversion of the FFs' intent to the anti-Christian forces.

Originally Posted by swtncgram

Illegal immigrants are HUGE contributors to organized religion. The church understands this and they prey upon the stupidity of the poor illegal immigrant and their family members. Like all organized religion, they are nothing more than greedy. This is why all organized religion wants illegal immigration to continue.
There is a good reason for all of this. It’s MONEY AND POWER! Politicians want illegal immigration to continue because there are votes, money and slave labor. Organized religion wants illegal immigration to continue because they can gain huge financial profits.
We have all heard that Money is the root of all evil at one time or another, and money is a major motivator behind illegal immigration. The people you see on the news every day, waving their mexican flags and screaming about what they think they are entitled to, CITIZENSHIP, don't realize that they are simply pawns in this plan for money, votes, and churches wanting more members, yes for more money. Both the church and the government are turning a blind eye to this issue because they stand to profit from it.
Chruches are TAX FREE ORGANIZATIONS....but did you know that these tax free organizations are heavily vested in the stock market and real estate. Most of them are buying and selling energy futures and making a fortune ….. TAX FREE!!! they are up to all kinds of shenanigans with your money by passing the plate around on Sunday morning. More than the corporations, more than the government, no one benefits more from illegal immigration than organized religion. The church knows that people from south of the border tend to be both religious and superstitious. They use their guilt tactics to saddle people that are already living below the poverty line with more bills. YES THAT IS WHAT TITHING IS. Their goal is to dupe as many people out of as much money as possible. Like sheep, people line up to hand over their money to a church that would just as soon turn their back on them if the money flow stopped.
Now don't get me wrong, I am a Christian, I do believe in God very strongly and have had a Christian up bringing. But when the church
tells me it is wrong to be against illegals coming across our borders and they blatantly break our laws by hiding them that is the last straw. I don't care if it were an order from the top church official of any chruch telling me it was my duty to follow the churches position on illegal immigration, the buck would stop there, then you would see how much they really cared for me when I would drop a note in the collection plate telling them until they follow the rules of the United States and stop protecting illegals they will get no money from me....just like I told the Republican party.

Gosh won't all those recipients of assistance from Christian charities be astonished to find out that their benefactors are "greedy"? I guess those widows and homeless folks that my fellow church members help out and all those tsunami victims and soldiers' families that I and my fellow church members help will be equally amazed that our little organization managed to part with enough of its hoard of gold to be of assistance to them. Thank you for helping me see the error of my ways. I guess from now on I'll just surrender all my spare money to the wise government so that it can be disbursed to crack whores, welfare addicts, and creators of lovely art like Piss Christ, or maybe subsidize a third printing of Sally Has Two Daddies. We all know that the politicians aren't greedy.

Originally Posted by obbop

"...who is that ugly piece of sh## in your avitar"


But, alas, the Gringo racist systems have placed the poor lad into a Texas prison where he await execution.

That woman he punched and threw to the ground then shot dead should have had the money he demanded.

I assume there are various organizations working hard for his release.

Thanks, obbop. Is there a link to this story? This person disturbes me.