Thread: my personal reply to Chicano

Originally Posted by chicano

Illegal immigration probably is hurting our economy. But when shown in contrast to other of this nation's failings. . .

And those failings would be. . . ?

Thats my POV but I'm sure I'm the "softy" of the website.

From my POV, you are a little "soft", but I think that's a good thing. It tones down people like me.

I'm one who believe in personal responsibility. If I break the law - (e.g. enter a country illegally), why should the fact that I've committed no other crimes (other than entering illegally) be a mitigating factor?

According to what I've read so far, entering the country illegally is a felony. Any American caught doing this in most countries in the world would be punished. We is it racist for us to uphold our laws?

CheyenneWoman - I agree. My point is that if I had to pick a time frame I guess 10 years would be sufficient. Plus, I am guessing that the bulk of the illegals here are more recent than that. I also believe that illegals from 10 years ago have very different personalities than the ones that are coming over now. The ones that are a little older and wiser are more respectful and seem to really want to assimilate rather than the recent ones that want to "reclaim aztlan". That is what I have seen from the people I have met (both legal and illegal).

Plus, my opinion is based on the *hope* that once this immigration war is won, we will have a system in place and our borders secure so that this won't happen again.

TexasCowgirl

You've got a great point there:

The ones that are a little older and wiser are more respectful and seem to really want to assimilate rather than the recent ones that want to "reclaim aztlan".

I live near the Denver area, and you are very right -- the older hispanics seem more down to earth than this new crop.

Where did these "youngsters" get this sense of entitlement? It boggles my mind!!

patbruntz, take a little time to actually read my posts and you will see what failings I am talking about. And cheyennewoman, no we must not adopt the immigration policies of mexico because we are not mexico. mexico is not a diverse tolerant country like the united states, so no.

Originally Posted by CheyenneWoman

TexasCowgirl

You've got a great point there:

The ones that are a little older and wiser are more respectful and seem to really want to assimilate rather than the recent ones that want to "reclaim aztlan".

I live near the Denver area, and you are very right -- the older hispanics seem more down to earth than this new crop.

Where did these "youngsters" get this sense of entitlement? It boggles my mind!!

I bet it's from poor parenting. None of these kids seem to have a father, and their moms have 4,5,6 kids so she really can't pay that much attention to each one of them. So they grow up looking for someone to be responsible, and of course it's the "rich americans".

Texas Cowgirl:

I've seen way too much permissiveness in the raising of these children. Mothers have no control over them - they're fathers are supposed to, but that obviously isn't what's happening.

In my limited experience, boys are considered to be "everything" and the girls are raising with one goal - make babies.

Interesting idealology

Originally Posted by chicano

O.K. I have read some of the posts that you posted. Once again, as in the beggining, we are in the same page when it come to securing the border. We are in the same page when it comes to creating a fool proof system that would allow us to know exactly who is in the country. We all know that many bad things will continue to happen if the border remains wide open. Do something about the border. I agree.

The place where we disagree, and for the most part, the only place where we disagree is what to do with the 8-20 million already here. This is the main problem that is dividing this country. Everyone agrees with securing the border, but one side wants to give illegal immigrants the chance to make things right, after all they have already set roots here. The other side wants deportations, or to set up a hostile environment towards illegal immigrants to the point that they will self deport.

When the immigration issue was the main thing on the news, I remember that the polls showed the vast majority of Americans want immigration reform to secure our borders. But I also remember that the polls showed that about 50% wanted those who had been living here for X amount of years a chance to become a resident or citizen, and about 50% didn't.

I really would like to know more about this topic, but not from Lou Doubbs or this website because as you know it is biased. In my opinion, Congress has just used the illegal immigrants as scapegoats from thier failings. They are pointing at them and say "Yes, go after them! They are the ones destroying your standard of living!" It is not outsourcing. It is not our enourmous cheap import addiction. It is not our cut of money for financial assistance for the middle class. It is not this huge pointless war that is costing us a billion dollars a week. It is them. All of this country's sufferings is because of that guy standing next to the Home Depot with the big sombrero.

Illegal immigration probably is hurting our economy. But when shown in contrast to other of this nation's failings, it is a mouse next to an elephant.

Congress has just added momentum to this movement so we can have someone to blame for their own failings. As I have always said, yes, do something about the border. But I am not blind so I can see what is going on.

If you have read all of the responses. then where is your respnse to my suggestion as to how to answer your question regarding how to get 20 million criminal interlopers out of our country?

Here's the suggestion again:

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Now, I will answer your question. First off, I want those caught committing crimes, driving without insurance, etc., to be prosecuted and/or deported. Realizing that it is logistically unfeasible to literally deport the full volume of the illegals, I am more interested in cutting off the supply of work and services. I think that we need to prosecute and fine the crap out of employers who hire illegals, either knowingly or unwittingly. Maybe we could cut those who we can't prove knew their employees were illegal a little slack by giving them one free pass, but then the fine for a second violation should be the same as for a second violation of one who could be proved to have knowingly hired illegals, and those repeat offenses should have exponentially escalating fines and punishment, including prison time for multiple offenses.

We should also cut all but the most basic of emergency services to illegals, and make theft of services such as food stamps cause for immediate deportation and confiscation of all accounts and assets. We should make illegal voting a felony punishable by hard time. In that environment, we would not have to deport 20 million people because there would be no reason for them to stay.

Isn't this the best way to proceed?

Chicano,
What do you not understand? If a weed grows in your flowers do you not pull it out be the roots? Illegals have so called rooted against the law. They can not be allowed to brake order. Granted 10 years here would be ok with me also but they must prove it and pay tax, along with other fines and they must go back to the end of the waiting list. If at any time a felony is commited by them their papers should be denied and deportation should follow. My concern is that many will falsify their work papers. My mother in law was approached by a women that was illegal trying to find employment as a housekeeper. My mother in law said she did all her own work and needed no help. The lady returned 3 days later with a paper and asked my mother in law if she would sign it to verify that she has been working for her. My mother in law said it was illegal and that she could get into trouble also. My question is how many others are and have been doing the same thing. How many legal Mexicans have signed in on it. Audit should come into play when verifying these documents. By the way this all happened when the amnesty talks began so not long ago.
Let's all remember that other people in worse conditions have been waiting for 4 plus years, with their papers completed and filed.By the way Iran does kill their own people for religion. My mother in law was Muslim and because she turned to Christianity she can never return. She will be killed and this is why my husbands family came here. To protect her. At least while the regime is as radical as it is. They through acid onto womens faces if they wear make-up. I have seen public stoning of women in the streets via Iranian satalite.
What is so hard for illegals that they can't do the same as people around the world. If Iraq was on our border and they flooded us like Mexico is, the same rules would apply. They would be uprooted and returned to their Country of Origin.

What to do with the 8-50 Million who are already here? I have a a couple of approaches. We can make them all fill out the proper paperwork, pay a penalty for being here for 10 years, test them on their english, then ask them to go back to where they came from, put them on the same waiting list that now exists.

The other approach, which I like much better is for the U.S. Government to spend a one time expenditure to send everyone back, and start the process if they want to come back.

Chicano, you see if the law isn't changed, and according to the difference between the House and the Senate it won't, then the current law in effect must be enforced. If it isn't, then several people will be voted out of office in favor of those who will. This isn't rocket science, and no matter where you stand on this issue, there will be a majority like us, who will remain silent until it is necessary to speak our opinions.

By the way, you'd better check your figures again about who wants what in this country. Depending on whos polls you wish to believe (I'm sure in this case, La Raza would be a good source huh?), ABC and CNN have the exact same poll numbers at about 65%. Only NBC asked a slightly different question whereby illegals would be given a chance to pay a penalty...regardless, there is a majority in this country would want this situation resolved.

Chicano, I believe most of what you say, but when it comes to the resolution, I think your way off...and by the way, whether your a citizen or not, anyone under the protection (whether legal or illegally) of this country have that right because myself and several other million men and women served this country. Freedom is not free, and I don't believe illegals should be given a free ride at any time during this issue. Giving illegals a way to become citizens over those who have waited on endless lists is not the answer.

Oh yeah, if I had seen an effort on the part of the illegals, I might have a different view point...get the point?