Thread: my personal reply to Chicano

CHICANO,

Our organization does not call for "mass deportations". We support ATTRITION DEPORTATION or Deportations through Attrition. Please see our platform and please read...

How To Reverse Illegal Immigration In America
http://www.alipac.us/article1111-thread-1-0.html

Yes, over 80% of Americans support these measures across the board.

The end results over a period of many years would be mass deportation and mass auto-deportation, but that is what is needed here and that is what the current law allows for.

The MASS DEPORTATION terminology you are using is a scare tactic to try and conjure up scary visions of malice and mayhem.

Your side knows that if you can keep the illegal aliens you already have in the US and turn them into voters and get them all to support more lawlessness then you will have the race based power and control you seek.

The public supports the deportation of illegal aliens especially ones caught for other crimes.

The illegal alien cohort in this country is so rich with criminals and gangsters that we will remove many of them this way if not most of the illegal aliens.

You seem to forget that many of the male and female illegal aliens coming into the US come illegally because they have already committed many crimes in their home countries and would never pass through the legal channels.

W

whole country has had their mind filled with one sided stereotypical garbage.

chicano,

Since you seem to be very concerned about racial or stereotypical matters and that we may be racialy motivated because of our opinions and viewpoints. I want to refere you to some American orginizations that can help you see our point of veiw and will be sensative to the fact that you are Hispanic because they are Hispanic. Like you, I'm sure many of them have immigrant parents and can understand where you are coming from. Also, there is no shame in being an immigrant, a child of a naturalized immigrant or embracing your heritage.

You Don't Speak for Me
http://dontspeakforme.org/index.html

LAIR Latino Americans for Immigration Reform
http://www.latinoamericans.org/

Don't get me wrong, you are more than welcome to stay and debate illegal immigration issues with us. I'm just offering you an alternative source.

Dixie

I must admit that supporting my stand is a bit harder than I thought it would be, but then again it is me, a person that just graduated high school against an entire army. I must also admit that I do not know all of the consequences or benefits of illegal immigration.

All I can speak for is what I have seen. And what I have seen is definitaley possitive. But as I have consistantly said, I am sure there are both good and bad aspects of illegal immigration.

My main purpose in trying to start or contribute in these debates was to simply show you that this story is not black nor white. It has millions of shades of gray. You could talk all day about how illegal immigrants have taken your job, driven down wages, and cost you tax money. And you would have a point. But I can talk all day about how immigrants are reshaping my community that everyone else had abandoned. The simple fact is that, IN MY COMMUNITY, it is the illegal immigrants, and the people that once were illegal immigrants that are reconstructing. And they are working by themselves, so no, these are not taking away jobs from Americans. And I would have the point.

I am calling nobody here racist. I understand that your main goal is to improve the declining standard of living of the middle class. I see clearly where you are all coming from, but you do not see where I am coming from.

I am an American, so obviously I want the best for my country. But when I see how people who are the same as me in all but one way are being portrayed as felons, drug dealers, rapists, terrorist, communists, invaders, and only that, you must see why I am so mad.

And it doesn't stop there. Not only must the illegal immigrants be shown like this, but their offspring are punished as well. They are not American citizens, but "anchor babies."

Do you really believe that the MAJORITY of Hispanics, who have so many ties to immigrants that came here illegally, are suppose to just say "Too Bad. I'm American now. That is their problem."?

Obviouly, the answer is no. So the least I could do is stir up some debate, although it seems useless when one is, in my opinion, so closed minded.

Chicano, the illegals do not and never will have the traditional American sense of fair play.

Dragonfly, I could not agree with you more. One of the main articles in the Austin American Statesman today was about Texas teachers failing Spanish speaking kids. What a load of crap their parents failed them.

Glad to see the admin take action in the above mentioned case.. All I really have to say is that I had been part of a protest a while back and can remember how one hispanic was being treated by my fellow Americans and it really wasn't nice.

The hispanic was a older male, 45 or so and he was out there with his sign just like the rest of us. Next thing I know, he's being harrassed by the anti-illegals for no good reason. I spoke to him for 10-15 minutes and found out he's a legal citizen, speaks English, pays taxes, and has a family here. One thing I would hate to see is that anyone on this board treat someone in such a harrassing manner as I saw this guy being treated. Just because he's hispanic doesn't automatically give someone the right to be hateful.

In the end, the Hispanic guy shook my hand and thanked me for being nice to him. Police made sure he was no longer harrassed.

chicano,

Nothing can ever change if you refuse to accept simple facts.

Since you appear to have all of the answers. Would you please share with us just exactly what the simple facts are?

Chicano,

46 or 47% of the Hispanic voters in Arizona voted YES on Proposition 200 on the ballot in 2004 which denies all taxpayer benefits, except for emergency medical, from illegal aliens. It also requires state employees to notify ICE if they come in contact with illegal aliens.

So YES, almost half of the legal Hispanics in America are read to cut off and kick out the illegal aliens.

Many of them realize that illegal aliens are causing a backlash against all immigration and all Hispanics.

Also, many of the illegal aliens are the people that legal Hispanic immigrants came to America to get away from.

W

Chicano,

[quote:12c12368]All I can speak for is what I have seen.

[/quote:12c12368]

Although I am glad your community has improved that has not been what I have seen. I've lived in many southern CA cities since 1956. I have seen a lot of change, I mean a lot! No need to go into details but they aren't pretty. My brother-in-law still lives in one of those areas and when my husband visits, there is a guy who always gives him threatening looks. Like, what for? My husband is not an in-your-face rude kind of person. Consequently he no longer likes to go there, feels he doesn't belong and their family grew up in that town. My husband's father could speak Spanish like a native they say. So much has changed since then. We all have had our experiences and those help create our opinions. I have not seen one community improved by hispanics moving in but glad to hear it happening somewhere.
Our country cannot possibly keep absorbing so many people so fast without a breakdown happening somewhere, somehow.

Chicano,
There are simply no grey areas in this. Legal is as it is and illegal is what it is clear cut. I understand that you are seeing wonderful things happening within your community. But none the less the illegals immigrants in your community are making a living to feed, shelter and pay bills. I'm sure they even have cars to maintain as well. How are they doing this Chicano? The only way they can illegally. Either from working for someone or through welfare. It is cut and dry. This is not a soft issue. There is a problem and it must be resolved, and because there is a law set before us we must comply. I said it before "They knew what would happen if they were caught" This is not a new law. It is however one that is being infringed upon. They, like everyone across our world must first fill out the necessary documents, submit them and wait for their turn. I am not being closed minded. I simply will not close my eyes and turn my head will someone is breaking a law. If my neighbor was being robbed I would not just look away because the person doing the crime is breaking a law. I would call the police and report them. These people are not following the law.If they had, then when it was time for them to come here by legal means they would have a home without worries, a legal job and a better chance in life for them and their childrens children to follow. The reason for laws is to keep order among the people of this nation. Without laws there is caos.

Originally Posted by chicano

I must admit that supporting my stand is a bit harder than I thought it would be. . .

No offense intended, but that is because it is an indefensible position due to the fact that it is contrary to logic and the facts.

Originally Posted by chicano

I must also admit that I do not know all of the consequences or benefits of illegal immigration.

Which is exactly why you are supporting an illogical position that is contrary to the real facts of the situation. If you become more informed as to the damage being done to our nation by illegal immigration, you will change your position. Unless it is you who are closed minded.

Originally Posted by chicano

All I can speak for is what I have seen. And what I have seen is definitaley possitive.

Perhaps you are not seeing the whole picture, but only a small part of it? The ALIPAC website is a wealth of information on this subject. I strongly suggest you review the archives.

Originally Posted by chicano

But as I have consistantly said, I am sure there are both good and bad aspects of illegal immigration.

I'm not sure what you mean by the positive aspects, but the bad aspects FAR outweight the good. Again, do some research here and you will see.

Originally Posted by chicano

My main purpose in trying to start or contribute in these debates was to simply show you that this story is not black nor white.

I'm sorry sir, but you are sadly mistaken here. Sneaking across the border and coming to our country is AGAINST THE LAW. There is no shade of grey. The law was broken or it was not. It is quite black and white.

Originally Posted by chicano

You could talk all day about how illegal immigrants have taken your job, driven down wages, and cost you tax money. And you would have a point. But I can talk all day about how immigrants are reshaping my community that everyone else had abandoned.

There are numerous other negative aspects you failed to mention, but even the ones you do mention far outweigh the positive one you mention.

Originally Posted by chicano

The simple fact is that, IN MY COMMUNITY,

But sir, the USA is made up of much more than just YOUR COMMUNITY. I say again that I think you are not seeing the whole picture, but are basing your assumptions on a very small sample size.

Originally Posted by chicano

it is the illegal immigrants, and the people that once were illegal immigrants that are reconstructing. And they are working by themselves, so no, these are not taking away jobs from Americans. And I would have the point.

So they are, "reconstructing," as you say, but you are not taking into account the other negative aspects of them being here illegally. Also, I don't quite understand what you mean by, "they are doing it themselves, so they are not taking away jobs from Americans." Just because they are building a building by themselves doesn't mean they are not taking jobs from US citizen construction workers. Sorry, but that is completely illogical. If a building needs to be built, it should be done by legal US citizens or of course you are taking a job away from an American citizen. What you say does not make sense.

Originally Posted by chicano

I am calling nobody here racist.

Good. Because this isssue is not about race. ALIPAC is not racist, which you will see is true if you look around the site and the archives. You will see that William and his team work very hard to make sure it is not racist.

I am merely an individual (who is NOT racist, BTW even though I have been a victim of racism) and I cannot speak for all at ALIPAC, but even if there are racists who frequent these boards, there are always people who support the right idea for the wrong reason - but that does not make the idea wrong. And none of that changes the fact that bringing a million or more, mostly low-skilled and uneducated, additional people from other countries to this one every year is tough on our economy, strains the fabric of our society, and ruins any hope of reducing environmental damage by stabilizing our population.

Originally Posted by chicano

. . . but you do not see where I am coming from.

No we see exactly where you are coming from and we are trying to point out where, why and how you are incorrect and help you to open your eyes and see the truth.

Originally Posted by chicano

I am an American, so obviously I want the best for my country.

Good, then once you educate yourself more on this issue, I'm sure you will see how we need to follow the steps outlined here:
http://www.alipac.us/article1111-thread-1-0.html
to save our country from being destroyed by the effects of illegal immigration.

Originally Posted by chicano

But when I see how people who are the same as me in all but one way are being portrayed as felons, drug dealers, rapists, terrorist, communists, invaders, and only that, you must see why I am so mad.

Since people are such a diverse lot, I'm sure they are different than you in more than one way. But be that as it may, unfortunately, if you do some research on this issue, you will find that many of the individuals sneaking across the border are doing it for more nefarious reasons than to simply make a better wage. The facts may make you angry, but then you should work with us to secure our borders so that we control who comes into our country and we can keep out the people who have evil intent. Your anger is misplaced if you are angry at US citizens who are the victims of these people who come wth evil intent. You are blaming the victim. You should be angry at those who sneak across our border with intent to do bad things in our country.

Originally Posted by chicano

And it doesn't stop there. Not only must the illegal immigrants be shown like this, but their offspring are punished as well. They are not American citizens, but "anchor babies."

How are their offspring punished? They are given a free education and many other benefits too numerous to mention here. Would they be better off if their parents had not come to the USA illegally but instead had stayed in their home country? I fail to see how they are punished. And yes, they should not be American citizens just because they were born here if their parents came here illegally. That custom is based on a misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment. Please tell me what other country allows children of illegal immigrants to automatically become citizens? How about Mexico, does it allow this? Far from being punished, they are being wrongly REWARDED with US citizenship and all the benefits that entails.

Originally Posted by chicano

Do you really believe that the MAJORITY of Hispanics, who have so many ties to immigrants that came here illegally, are suppose to just say "Too Bad. I'm American now. That is their problem."?

As previous waves of immigrants have done, when you LEGALLY come to America and become a US citizen, you are supposed to end your allegiance to your former nation and have allegiance to ONLY the USA. If you have allegiance only to the USA and want what is good for your new homeland, then yes, you should tell illegals to go back and come legally. I am not hispanic, but if the country of my origin shared a border with the USA and people from that country were sneaking across the border (even if it was members of my own family) I would tell them to go back and do it legally!

Originally Posted by chicano

. . . so closed minded.

It is not closed mindedness, but certainty obtained by knowledge of the issue. A certainty you too will obtain if you honestly examine this issue and learn more about it.