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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    I do it for fun.
    But you are pushing it in any thread you can work it in, sort of like "product placement" in movies and TV shows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    I love exposing the stupidity of the old farts that created this mess in our country.
    Or demonstrating your own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    My paper presented a national retail sales tax of 7% on all retail goods and service including used goods. The professor liked it so much he gave me an A + and read it to the class.
    Hmm! A left-wing professor. How rare!

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    There were people like you in the class who turned and snarled "what about my Daddy's hotel and meal expenses he incurs when he's on the road as a salesman?" To which I replied, "What about them? He doesn't pay any tax so there's no tax to deduct his expenses from, so what about them?" It was like looking into the eyes of a dead person, they had no comprehension of tax at all.
    And this is the class of people you compare yourself to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    The snag ever since until the FairTax has been how to effectively and economically deal with the "necessities of life" so the tax wouldn't be regressive and overly burdensome on the poor.
    Look at Herman Cain's 9–9–9 Plan. It was a balanced plan, splitting the burden three ways. I feel that was superior to your FairTax plan!

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    People are addicted to the income tax, and I have no earthly idea why other than they think they're getting something for free at someone else's expense.
    That's because many are!

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    That's why some people hate the FairTax, it grinds all that to a halt, no one is special, everyone who is a citizen or a legal resident is treated the same, it's completely egalitarian.
    Some people hate it because it is, like the current tax code, overly complicated. Unfortunately, some of that seems necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    People like me love that about the FairTax, but people like you, jtdc and Johnwk hate it. That's just the way it is.
    But, it appears that more people like me, John and MW, hate it than people like you who like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    The FairTax doesn't need any of you to pass. It needs a few more Republicans in Congress and Donald Trump. We'll see how things work out in the mid-terms.
    That's how our republic works, the majority makes the laws.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    If the Excise Tax is an income tax, then the income tax was always Constitutional and the 16th Amendment a frivolous waste of time.
    It is a federal tax. It is actually a sales tax or, perhaps, a VAT tax which you said we would never have! But it is and will be there, among all the embedded taxes that are compounded in the final price of most things we buy. And consumers are who end up paying it!

  3. #163
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtdc View Post
    It is a federal tax. It is actually a sales tax or, perhaps, a VAT tax which you said we would never have! But it is and will be there, among all the embedded taxes that are compounded in the final price of most things we buy. And consumers are who end up paying it!
    No, it's not a Value Added Tax and it's not an Income Tax. But if Johnwek wants to think an Excise Tax is an Income Tax and you want to think it's a Value Added Tax, that's great! It just proves my point all the more about the Anti-FairTaxers.
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  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    No, it's not a Value Added Tax and it's not an Income Tax. But if Johnwek wants to think an Excise Tax is an Income Tax and you want to think it's a Value Added Tax, that's great!
    It's a federal tax, and it is paid by consumers with their income!

  5. #165
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    Sigh. Is it true that I'm the only one who knows the story of the corporate excise tax of 1909 that Johnwk continues to wail about? Wow. I must say, I'm impressive.

    Twiddle Dee. Twiddle Dum.

    Rebates. Refunds.

    Deductions. Reductions.

    Corporate Excise. Corporate Income.

    Twiddle Dee, Twiddle Dum.

    No More Ho Hum.

    FairTax Done.
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  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    FairTax Done.
    Does that mean you are finally throwing in the towel?

  7. #167
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Twiddle Dee. Twiddle Dum.

    Rebates. Refunds.

    Deductions. Reductions.

    Corporate Excise. Corporate Income.

    Twiddle Dee, Twiddle Dum.

    No More Ho Hum.

    FairTax Won.
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  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    No, Judy, you are not being honest. You specifically stated the alleged "FairTax" . . .eliminates all federal income based taxes on businesses and individuals."

    Contrary to you assertion, if the alleged fairtax were passed, Congress may still lay and collect an income based tax such as the Corporate excise tax of 1909.

    See: FLINT v. STONE TRACY CO.,

    This tax, it is expressly stated, is to be equivalent to 1 per centum of the entire net income over and above $5,000 received from all sources during the year,-this is the measure of the tax explicitly adopted by the statute. The income is not limited to such as is received from property used in the business, strictly speaking, but is expressly declared to be upon the entire net income above $5,000 from all sources, excluding the amounts received as dividends on stock in other corporations, joint stock companies or associations, or insurance companies also subject to the tax. In other words, the tax is imposed upon the doing of business of the character described, and the measure of the tax is to be income, with the deduction stated, received not only from property used in business, but from every source.


    Judy, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . . it must be a duck. The alleged "fairtax" does not eliminate all federal income based taxes as you allege.


    Why are you making stuff up?

    JWK


    If the Excise Tax is an income tax, then the income tax was always Constitutional and the 16th Amendment a frivolous waste of time.
    .
    Yes, Judy, according to the Court’s written opinion, the 16th Amendment seems to have made no material change to Congress’ taxing powers. The Amendment merely confirms Congress may lay and collect taxes on “incomes” without having to apportion the tax ___ a power apparently possessed by Congress from the beginning. But note, the Amendment does not say Congress may lay and collect “direct” taxes on incomes without having to apportion them. The Flint case, which I provided a link to, explains in detail how Congress’ was able to lay and collect a tax on incomes, prior to the adoption of the 16th Amendment, without having to apportion the tax. The tax in Flint turns out to be an indirect tax on a privilege granted by government and did not have to be apportioned, while the amount of tax to be paid is calculated from profits and gains realized under the privilege.

    Under the alleged fairtax, Congress gets to impose a 23 percent tax on articles of consumption; gets to impose a 23 percent tax on the sale of labor; and maintains its power to lay and collect excise taxes calculated from profits and gains which ___ as in the Corporate Excise Tax of 1909 ___ turns out to be an income based tax.

    The ugly truth is, the alleged “FairTax” does not eliminate income based taxes. But it does create two new taxes and two new government agencies to be used to tighten the iron fist of our federal government around the necks of the American people and their businesses.

    Why do you support such tax tyranny?


    JWK

  9. #169
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    The corporate excise tax of 1909 was replaced with the corporate income tax in 1913 and hasn't existed in the US for 105 years.

    The FairTax repeals the federal corporate income tax and all other federal income based taxes that are part of the Internal Revenue Act of 1986 and replaces that revenue with a 23% national retail sales tax on new goods and services, offers a Rebate for necessities for those citizens and legal residents who want to sign up for it, pays retailers to collect the tax from the consumer at the final point of sale and pays states who want to sign on to collect from the retailers.

    I do not see it as tyranny. I see the income tax as tyranny. I also just prefer this very simple non-intrusive method of collecting revenue to fund the federal government. I see it as more efficient, more prompt, and better for the economy. I see it as helpful to fixing our trade deficits and curbing illegal immigration because it gives advantages to US producers over foreign-producers and American Workers over illegal aliens. It also discourages urban sprawl which promotes land conservation by encouraging redevelopment of existing homes and structures because it exempts used goods including homes and condos. It preserves if not increases the value of other used goods as well, such as vehicles and helps those who want a new car to retain higher trade in or resell value on their existing vehicle they want to trade in or sell so they can buy a new one, which encourages earlier turn over, more new car sales, and more lower mileage used vehicles in better condition for people who need to buy a used vehicle because they can't afford a new one. It also shuts down all these phony 501 C 3 "charity" frauds because under the FairTax, they're they're treated the same as any other business. And it robustly funds SS and Medicare to rebuild and maintain the Social Security Trust Fund for retired workers.

    The FairTax is without question the single most important economic development legislation of our lifetimes, with or without the Rebate, with or without a repeal of the 16th Amendment, or whether it's called the FairTax or a National Retail Sales Tax or Consumption Tax.

    I don't understand or agree with people who see it differently. That's just the way it is. I've been on this issue since I was a young girl in college and nothing I've seen, heard, read or experienced has changed my mind one bit about the urgent need to convert our tax system to a national retail sales tax. 70,000 lost factories, $800 billion a year in lost trade in goods, $22 trillion in national debt, 30 million illegal aliens roaming our land proves that beyond any doubt at all.
    Last edited by Judy; 06-14-2018 at 03:18 PM.
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  10. #170
    MW
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    Judy wrote (excerpt):

    The FairTax is without question the single most important economic development legislation of our lifetimes, with or without the Rebate, with or without a repeal of the 16th Amendment, or whether it's called the FairTax or a National Retail Sales Tax or Consumption Tax.
    "Judy's World" just cracks me up at times!
    Last edited by MW; 06-14-2018 at 10:43 PM.

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