Thread: FairTax and Trade

MW World = 70,000 lost factories, $800 billion a year in trade goods deficits, $22 Trillion in national debt, and 30 million illegal aliens roaming our land.

And there's a not a damn thing funny about it.

Originally Posted by Judy

MW World = 70,000 lost factories, $800 billion a year in trade goods deficits, $22 Trillion in national debt, and 30 million illegal aliens roaming our land.

And there's a not a damn thing funny about it.

I think it's funny that you think the FairTax would fix any of those!

Originally Posted by jtdc

I think it's funny that you think the FairTax would fix any of those!

I've been living on the outskirts of Judy's World for 12 years. So, I speak from experience and personal knowledge when I say, "Judy's World" is a a place where everything would be lollipops and gumdrops if everyone played by Judy's rules. In her mind the unfair tax is a magic stick that would fix everything that ails our country with just a wave or two.

The FairTax is 1 of 5 steps needed to fix the US economy.

Judy's Five Steps to Fix the US Economy:

1. End illegal immigration and reduce legal immigration
2. Pass the FairTax
3. Protect our trade
4. End the War on Drugs
5. Drill baby drill, but do it right

To fix our country, you have to reverse the policies that caused this mess to begin with. The income tax is one of those policies that needs to be reversed. The FairTax does that.

The income tax rewards illegal aliens and foreign producers. Why would anyone on ALIPAC support that? The FairTax punishes them with a 23% sales tax. Why would anyone on ALIPAC oppose that?

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by johnwk

Yes, Judy, according to the Court’s written opinion, the 16th Amendment seems to have made no material change to Congress’ taxing powers. The Amendment merely confirms Congress may lay and collect taxes on “incomes” without having to apportion the tax ___ a power apparently possessed by Congress from the beginning. But note, the Amendment does not say Congress may lay and collect “direct” taxes on incomes without having to apportion them. The Flint case, which I provided a link to, explains in detail how Congress’ was able to lay and collect a tax on incomes, prior to the adoption of the 16th Amendment, without having to apportion the tax. The tax in Flint turns out to be an indirect tax on a privilege granted by government and did not have to be apportioned, while the amount of tax to be paid is calculated from profits and gains realized under the privilege.

Under the alleged fairtax, Congress gets to impose a 23 percent tax on articles of consumption; gets to impose a 23 percent tax on the sale of labor; and maintains its power to lay and collect excise taxes calculated from profits and gains which ___ as in the Corporate Excise Tax of 1909 ___ turns out to be an income based tax.

The ugly truth is, the alleged “FairTax” does not eliminate income based taxes. But it does create two new taxes and two new government agencies to be used to tighten the iron fist of our federal government around the necks of the American people and their businesses.

Why do you support such tax tyranny?


JWK

The corporate excise tax of 1909 was replaced with the corporate income tax in 1913 and hasn't existed in the US for 105 years.

The FairTax repeals the federal corporate income tax and all other federal income based taxes that are part of the Internal Revenue Act of 1986 and replaces that revenue with a 23% national retail sales tax on new goods and services,
.

Judy,

I’m beginning to understand the mental block you have in judging the merits of a tax. You fail to identify the characteristics of the tax and how it operates on individuals, and focus only on the name of a tax. Repealing the Corporate Excise of 1909 and replacing it with the corporate income tax in 1913 does nothing to change the characteristics of the tax. In each case the tax is calculated from profits, gains and other incomes and the name of the tax is irrelevant in its operation. Is this really that difficult for you to understand?

Your above assertion, that the “FairTax repeals the federal corporate income tax and all other federal income based taxes that are part of the Internal Revenue Act of 1986” is meaningless and an intentional attempt to delude if the characteristics of an income based tax are still available to Congress under the alleged “FairTax”, which is the case.

Additionally, the alleged “FairTax”, when applied to ordinary working people, such as Mary and Joe Sixpack who sell the property each has in their own labor to finance their economic needs, turns out to directly tax an inalienable right of mankind in addition to operating as an income based tax, as the tax to be paid is calculated from money received from the sale of their labor.

Our founders fully understood the notoriously oppressive nature of direct taxation, and that is why they specifically commanded in our Constitution that “No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.” Our Founders intended that if direct taxation were ever to be used, and levied directly upon individuals by our federal government, as the alleged “FairTax” does, it would turn out to be an equal per capita tax and every tax payer would pay an equal amount of tax, which is not the case under the alleged fairtax.

JWK


If, by calling a tax indirect when it is essentially direct, the rule of protection could be frittered away, one of the great landmarks defining the boundary between the nation and the states of which it is composed, would have disappeared, and with it one of the bulwarks of private rights and private property. POLLOCK v. FARMERS' LOAN & TRUST CO., 157 U.S. 429 (1895)

LOL!! I don't care, Johnwk. My objective is to repeal the existing income-based taxes that people pay and account for and comply with under the Revenue Act "code". If a wiley Congress tries to pass some other type of income tax on corporations or anyone else, that will be their job to fight it. I will have done far more than my "fair share" to free US all from all from the income tax by helping to pass the FairTax.

At some point, you people have to learn to stand up for yourselves. You've sat around your entire lives filing tax returns, sharing personal information and private earnings, holdings and investments with the federal government, filing withholding reports, allowing your wage income to be stolen from you before you even receive it, celebrating your little refund checks when you get one because they over-charged you or you overpaid as if they're pennies from heaven and you really pulled one off on the government.

There's an ole saying, "you can walk a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". Same with humans. Even though every American knows the damage of illegal immigration, we have at least half of our country that feels sorry for illegal aliens and doesn't want to deport them. Even though every American knows the damage of "free trade treason" and bad trade deals, we have at least half of our country that likes cheap imported low quality crap more than they want good jobs for Americans and good high quality US made products for our consumers. Even though every American knows by now that the income tax is a failed program that punishes our businesses and workers, rewards illegal aliens and foreign producers, and benefits no one but the Globalists and Elites who conspired this evil tax to begin with, we still have people like you and MW and jtdc, who are happier keeping it the way it is, than getting on board with the FairTax that will repeal every existing income-based tax in the United States and replace the revenue with a national retail sales tax on new goods and services.

You're the horses that won't drink the water when it's right there for you, and you know what happens to the horse that won't drink. That horse will die. Same with humans. It's a suicide mission you're on. It's sad to watch, but it's your choice.

Originally Posted by Judy

The FairTax is 1 of 5 steps needed to fix the US economy.

Judy's Five Steps to Fix the US Economy:

1. End illegal immigration and reduce legal immigration
2. Pass the FairTax
3. Protect our trade
4. End the War on Drugs
5. Drill baby drill, but do it right

All but #2 are good! But these are "Judy's Five Steps", not part of the FairTax. So they are irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Judy

To fix our country, you have to reverse the policies that caused this mess to begin with. The income tax is one of those policies that needs to be reversed.

That much is true!

Originally Posted by Judy

The FairTax does that.

There's the flaw in your thinking!

Originally Posted by Judy

The income tax rewards illegal aliens and foreign producers.

I can see how avoiding Income Tax is beneficial to illegal aliens and criminals, but how does it benefit foreign producers?

Originally Posted by Judy

The FairTax punishes them with a 23% sales tax. Why would anyone on ALIPAC oppose that?

Why should any of us be "punished" by taxes?

You don't understand how the US income tax benefits illegal aliens and foreign producers? Wow.

Originally Posted by Judy

At some point, you people have to learn to stand up for yourselves.

So standing up to you doesn't count?

Originally Posted by Judy

There's an ole saying, "you can walk a horse to water, but you can't make it drink".

And you are proving the wisdom of that saying!

Originally Posted by Judy

Even though every American knows the damage of illegal immigration, we have at least half of our country that feels sorry for illegal aliens and doesn't want to deport them.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with Income Tax!

Originally Posted by Judy

It's a suicide mission you're on. It's sad to watch, but it's your choice.

But at least we get to take you with us!

Originally Posted by Judy

You don't understand how the US income tax benefits illegal aliens and foreign producers? Wow.

I guess you still haven't learned to read! I wrote "I can see how avoiding Income Tax is beneficial to illegal aliens and criminals"! But you stick with your talking points, like most liberals who combine illegal aliens with legal immigrants, by combining benefits of Income tax to illegal aliens together with foreign producers.