Thread: Barack Obama's citizenship questioned

CCUSA POSTED:

Video of case on CNN

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politi ... enship.cnn

This requirement in the CONSTITUTION is not ambiguous to me or millions of other US citizens.

http://www.alipac.us/ftopicp-815325.html#815325

CCUSA posted:

PRUDEN: An impostor in the White House?


Wesley Pruden (Contact)
Friday, December 5, 2008

ASSOCIATED PRESS President-elect Barack Obama was born under the jurisdiction of a foreign power, Britain, and is therefore ineligible to serve as president of the United States, according to a lawsuit that has reached the Supreme Court.

The Supreme Court will get a first look Friday at a little bomb with the potential to make a big noise. The operative word is "potential." Almost nobody thinks the justices, who can read election returns as well as the law, will light the fuse.

More on thread below.
http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-139831.html

In 1981, when Pakistan was a forbidden travel destination for U.S. citizens carrying U.S. passports, how did Barack Obama II go to Pakistan and return to the U.S.?

If he used an renewed Indonesian or other foreign passport, he had to renounce his U.S. citizenship to get it. That makes him an illegal alien.

Get it?

If you know any other way he could have traveled from the U.S. to Pakistan and back without setting off alarms at his U.S. port of entry, there are numerous Is|amist terr0rists who would like just a moment of your time.


Dear Sir,

Barack Obama II could have used the long form Certificate of Live Birth to get a U.S. passport to move to Indonesia in 1967, and he almost certainly did. Although the short form Certification of Live Birth states that it serves as prima facie evidence of live birth in any court proceeding, in practice, it does not. It is not accepted by the U.S. State Dept. to get a passport, because it lacks information such as box 7 c., "County and State or Foreign Country" for birthplace. The Certification is more a "Registration of Hawaiian Residence" than a birth certificate; anyone who has lived in Hawaii for the previous year can get one for a baby under a year old, no matter where the baby was born.

In 1967, his new stepfather adopted (or acknowledged) him and made him an Indonesian citizen so he could go to public school: Fransiskus Assisi school (Catholic) from 1967 to 1970 and Besuki primary school (public), Menteng, Jakarta, from 1970 to 1971. As an Indonesian citizen, he could not use his old U.S. passport to leave Indonesia and return to Honolulu in 1971; he must have used an Indonesian passport.

His stepfather, not he as an adult, naturalized him as Indonesian, so his U.S. citizenship never expired. But neither did his Indonesian citizenship, until age 21. When he went to Pakistan with his two Pak roommates in 1981, at age 19 or 20, he could not use a U.S. passport. Pakistan was off-limits for U.S. citizens on U.S. passports.

So, on the way to Pakistan, he made a side trip to Indonesia, where he was still legally an Indonesian citizen named Barry Soetoro. Presumably, he then renewed Barry Soetoro's Indonesian passport and continued on to Pakistan. He left Pakistan as Barry Soetoro on his Indonesian passport and went to Kenya to visit his step-grandmother, Mama Sarah Obama, and his home folks. Then he left Kenya as Barack Obama II on his U.S. passport and returned to Hawaii before going on to Columbia University.

Barack Obama II's legal problem is that he renewed his Indonesian passport (or as a very remote second possibility, he gained a passport from a third country). This required that he, as an adult, renounced his U.S. citizenship. So he is not a U.S. citizen. Even if he regained his U.S. citizenship by naturalization, of which we have no knowledge, he would be a naturalized citizen, not a natural born citizen. As a non-citizen or a naturalized citizen, he is not eligible to be President or Vice President of the U.S., either of which must be a "natural born Citizen".

However, if he is a naturalized citizen, he is eligible to become Sec. of State. If the Electoral College or the Congress determines he is not Constitutionally qualified before his confirmation on Jan. 6, then the E.C. would elect Hillary Clinton, the second vote-getter, and an undetermined V.P. of her choice, perhaps Joe Biden. That would vacate the Sec. of State position, to which she may appoint ex-Sen. Obama. He has already appointed Hillary's choices for Cabinet posts. Very convenient. It couldn't have been more neat if it had been planned.

Read a more thorough rebuttal of the objections from the in-denial public, along with a rigorous account of the many and varied pieces of evidence against ex-Sen. Obama's claim of "natural born" citizenship, here => http://www.alipac.us/ftopic-137238-.html

Thank you for your attention to this, the biggest fraud since the Trojan Horse, and not much different.

Donofrio is on right now talking about the case.
http://www.usaradio.com/usa2_media_player.htm

I forgot something, over the last 2 or 3 years that I have been emailing and faxing "Stinky" Harry Reid, he has never replied 1 time. Today I get the first email ever from this guy replying to the fax I sent through one of the alerts from? about this Obama issue. This must be a severe topic in the senatorial circles in order for Stinky to reply. Check out the "A" towards the bottom just below "sincerely". The font size of that "A" was like 50pt! I made it 24pt for this comment. It was about 3 inches high! What does that mean? I would understand if they put "#1 awesomest guy" there, but what is "A" suposed to mean?

December 5, 2008

Dear Mr. x:

Thank you for contacting me. I appreciate hearing from you.

According to Article I, Sections 2 and 3 of the Constitution, any person serving in the United States House of Representatives must have reached the age of twenty-five and must have been a citizen of the United States for at least seven years, and any person serving in the United States Senate must have reached the age of thirty and must have been a citizen of the United States for at least nine years. In addition, Article II, Section 1 mandates that a person must have reached the age of thirty-five and be a natural born citizen in order to serve as President of the United States.

As you mentioned, some reports have surfaced that my former colleague, President-Elect Barack Obama, is not a natural-born American citizen. These reports are false. Barack Obama was born on August 4, 1961, in Honolulu, Hawai'i. His birth certificate is a matter of public record of the State of Hawai'i and is available online through various news sources, as well as on the Web site for the nonpartisan, nonprofit Annenberg Political Fact Check: http://www.factcheck.org. I hope you find this information useful.

Again, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with me. For more information about my work for Nevada, my role in the United States Senate Leadership, or to subscribe to regular e-mail updates on the issues that interest you, please visit my Web site at http://reid.senate.gov. I look forward to hearing from you in the near future.



My best wishes to you.
Sincerely,

A

HARRY REID

United States Senator

Nevada





HR:js

Here's a good rebuttal article to send Sen. Reid. Links within the article.

Email Friend | Print Article | 298 Comments
November 26, 2008


Why the Barack Obama Birth Certificate Issue Is Legitimate


By Joe the Farmer
Does this Barack Obama birth certificate issue bug you because, although improbable, it's possible that he's not a natural born citizen, isn't eligible to be President under the Constitution, and this issue could be bigger than Watergate -- or any other "gate" in history?


Are you afraid that if you were even to raise the subject with your friends that they will think you wear a tinfoil hat, because Factcheck.org, the final arbiter of truth in the universe, said so?


Are you with the news media, and after spending so much money to get Barack Obama elected, you'd hate to ruin your investment?


Are you a talk radio host who thinks that if you say the burden of proof needed to demonstrate one is eligible to be Commander in Chief should be at least as high as, oh, say, the level to be eligible for Hawaiian homestead status (see 1.F. below), that you'd be forced to give equal time to someone who disagrees?


Are you a conservative, libertarian, or any conscientious constitutionalist from any ideological side of life, who's convinced something's not right, but you're afraid your reputation might be tarnished because, after all, this could be one big Saul-Alinsky-style set-up, and the joke would be on you?


Fear not! Joe the Farmer has prepared an outline showing that no matter how this issue is ultimately resolved, you have legitimate concerns, and that Barack Obama should, simply out of respect for the nation he was elected to lead, disclose the sealed vault copy of his birth certificate.


Given the circumstances, if Barack Obama respected this nation, he would prove it by the simplest and easiest of gestures - unless, of course, all this talk about change and hope was just a bunch of bull, and he's just "another politician." Here's the outline:


1. Under Hawaiian law, it is possible (both legally and illegally) for a person to have been born out of state, yet have a birth certificate on file in the Department of Health.


A. From Hawaii's official Department of Health, Vital Records webpage: "Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country" (applies to adopted children).


B. A parent may register an in-state birth in lieu of certification by a hospital of birth under HRS 338-5.


C. Hawaiian law expressly provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8. A foreign birth presumably would have been recorded by the American consular of the country of birth, and presumably that would be reflected on the Hawaiian birth certificate.


D. Hawaiian law, however, expressly acknowledges that its system is subject to error. See, for example, HRS 338-17.


E. Hawaiian law expressly provides for verification in lieu of certified copy of a birth certificate under HRS 338-14.3.


F. Even the Hawaii Department of Home Lands does not accept a certified copy of a birth certificate as conclusive evidence for its homestead program. From its web site: "In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL."



2. Contrary to what you may have read, no document made available to the public, nor any statement by Hawaiian officials, evidences conclusively that Obama was born in Hawaii.


A. Associated Press reported about a statement of Hawaii Health Department Director Dr. Fukino, "State declares Obama birth certificate genuine."


B. That October 31, 2008 statement says that Dr. Fukino "ha[s] personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures." That statement does not, however, verify that Obama was born in Hawaii, and as explained above, under Hawaiian policies and procedures it is quite possible that Hawaii may have a birth record of a person not born in Hawaii. Unlikely, but possible.


C. The document that the Obama campaign released to the public is a certified copy of Obama's birth record, which is not the best evidence since, even under Hawaiian law, the original vault copy is the better evidence. Presumably, the vault record would show whether his birth was registered by a hospital in Hawaii.


D. Without accusing anyone of any wrongdoing, we nevertheless know that some people have gone to great lengths, even in violation of laws, rules and procedures, to confer the many benefits of United States citizenship on themselves and their children. Given the structure of the Hawaiian law, the fact that a parent may register a birth, and the limited but inherent potential for human error within the system, it is possible that a parent of a child born out-of-state could have registered that birth to confer the benefits of U.S. citizenship, or simply to avoid bureaucratic hassles at that time or later in the child's life.


1. We don't know whether the standards of registration by the Department of Health were more or less stringent in 1961 (the year of Obama's birth) than they are today. However, especially with post-9/11 scrutiny, we do know that there have been instances of fraudulent registrations of foreign births as American births.


2. From a 2004 Department of Justice news release about multiple New Jersey vital statistics employees engaged in schemes to issue birth certificates to foreign-born individuals: "An individual who paid Anderson and her co-conspirators for the service of creating the false birth records could then go to Office of Vital Statistics to receive a birth certificate . . . As part of the investigation, federal agents executed a search warrant of the HCOVS on Feb. 18, 2004, which resulted in the seizure of hundreds of suspect Certificates of Live Birth which falsely indicated that the named individuals were born in Jersey City, when in fact, they were born outside the United States and were in the United States illegally . . . Bhutta purchased from Goswamy false birth certificates for himself and his three foreign-born children."


3. Even before 9/11, government officials acknowledged the "ease" of obtaining birth certificates fraudulently. From 1999 testimony by one Social Security Administration official: "Furthermore, the identity data contained in Social Security records are only as reliable as the evidence on which the data are based. The documents that a card applicant must present to establish age, identity, and citizenship, usually a birth certificate and immigration documents-are relatively easy to alter, counterfeit, or obtain fraudulently."


3. It has been reported that the Kenyan government has sealed Obama's records. If he were born in Kenya, as has been rumored even recently, the Kenyan government would certainly have many incentives to keep that undisclosed. Objectively, of course, those records may prove nothing. Obama's refusal to release records at many levels here in the United States, though, merely fuels speculation.


4. Obama has refused to disclose the vault copy of his Hawaiian birth certificate. This raises the question whether he himself has established that he is eligible to be President. To date, no state or federal election official, nor any government authority, has verified that he ever established conclusively that he meets the eligibility standard under the Constitution. If the burden of proof were on him, perhaps as it should be for the highest office of any individual in America, the more-than-dozen lawsuits challenging his eligibility would be unnecessary.


A. Had he disclosed his vault copy in the Berg v. Obama lawsuit (which was the first lawsuit filed on the question of his eligibility to be President), and it was established he was born in Hawaii, that would have constituted res judicata, and acted to stop other similar lawsuits being filed. Without res judicata (meaning, the matter is adjudged and settled conclusively) he or government officials will need to defend other lawsuits, and valuable court resources will be expended. Strategically from a legal standpoint, therefore, his refusal to disclose doesn't make sense. Weighing factors such as costs, resources and complexity of disclosing versus not disclosing, he must have reason of considerable downside in disclosing, or upside in not disclosing. There may be other reasons, but one could speculate that he hasn't disclosed because:


1. He was not born in Hawaii, and may not be eligible to be President;


2. He was born in Hawaii, but facts that may be derived from his vault copy birth certificate are inconsistent with the life story he has told (and sold);


3. He was born in Hawaii, and his refusal to provide the best evidence that he is a natural born citizen is a means by which to draw criticism of him in order to make him appear to be a "victim." This would energize his supporters. This would also make other charges about him seem suspect, including his concealment about ties to Bill Ayers and others of some infamy. Such a clever yet distasteful tactic would seem to be a Machiavelli- and Saul-Alinsky-style way to manipulate public opinion. But while this tactic may energize his supporters, it would convince those who believe him to be a manipulator that he's not only just that, but a real pro at it. This would indeed be the basest reason of all, and would have repercussions about his trustworthiness (both here and abroad), which Americans know, is a characteristic sorely lacking in its leaders.


B. His motion to dismiss the Berg case for lack of standing could be viewed as contemptuous of the Constitution. See, "Who Enforces the Constitution's Natural Born Citizen Clause?" Are we to expect yet another White House that hides behind lawyers, and expects Americans to swallow half-truths on a just-trust-me basis?


C. This issue poses the potential for a constitutional crisis unlike anything this country has seen. Disclosure at this stage, however, could even result in criminal sanctions. See, "Obama Must Stand Up Now Or Step Down." Thus, he has motive not to disclose if he were ineligible.


The question not being asked by the holders of power, who dismiss this as a rightwing conspiracy, is what's the downside of disclosing? This is a legitimate issue of inquiry because Barack Obama has turned it into one. The growing number of people who demand an answer in conformance with the Constitution are doing their work; the people's watchdogs aren't.


http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/ ... h_cer.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-blo ... 3302/posts

The chief framer of the related 14th Amendment of the Constitution, John A. Bingham corroborated this dual criteria stating, "every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen." An extensive analysis citing this is "Defining Natural-Born Citizen," by P.A. Madison, The Federalist Blog.

Since then, the case of Perkins v. ELG, U.S. 325 (1939) provides precedent for requiring these two criteria, for one to be called a "native born citizen" (see, "The Law -- Perkins v. ELG," blog, The Betrayal).

St. George Tucker, Justice of the Supreme Court of Virgina, wrote a version of the authoritative Blackstone's Commentaries: With Notes of Reference to the Constitution... which became a recognized resource for determining the framers' original intent. In his Volume 1 -- Appendix; Note D, he explained that the Article 2 "natural born Citizen" requirement was purposed to avoid competing allegiances:

"That provision in the constitution which requires that the president shall be a native-born citizen (unless he were a citizen of the United States when the constitution was adopted,) is a happy means of security against foreign influence, which, whereever it is capable of being exerted, is to [be] dreaded more than the plague."

Friday, Dec. 05, 2008



Group seeks to have state's votes for Obama set aside
By Michelle Dupler, Herald staff writer



A group of Washington residents have filed a lawsuit with the state Supreme Court asking the state's votes for President-elect Barack Obama be set aside.

James E. Broe of King County and 12 others claim Obama never established that he is a natural-born American citizen as required by the Constitution, and that Obama ran under a false name.

A similar suit before the election was dismissed in King County.

Obama is set to receive the state's 11 electoral votes when the Electoral College delegates meet in Olympia on Dec. 15.

Dave Ammons, spokesman for Secretary of State Sam Reed's office, said in an e-mail to the Herald that the state's position is that Reed is not required and does not have the authority to investigate the qualifications of candidates for president and vice president.

"Under state law, the Republican and Democratic tickets are automatically placed on the fall ballot after the national party conventions," Ammons said. "Other tickets can qualify by having 1,000 registered Washington voters sign petitions at conventions. The state Elections Division examines the signatures, but does not investigate the qualifications of the candidates."

The lawsuit claims that Reed has known about questions concerning Obama's eligibility since September, but did nothing to determine whether Obama was a lawful candidate.

The claims rest on Obama's alleged failure to provide a certificate of live birth from his home state of Hawaii. Court documents say Obama instead has published a document called a Certification of Live Birth, which the suit claims does not prove Obama was born on American soil.

The suit also claims Obama was adopted by a stepfather in Indonesia and took the legal name Barry Soetoro, and that Barack Hussein Obama was not his legal name when he filed as a candidate in Washington. The claims are based on school records published on the TV show Inside Edition, according to court documents.







http://www.tri-cityherald.com/kennewick ... 06848.html

http://www.filesend.net/download.php...bdfa8b11e9e01a

This is the Plains Radio interview with Leo Donofrio on 12/05/08 (45.5 MB), after the full conference at the Supreme Court which included his case.

Originally Posted by CCUSA

Friday, Dec. 05, 2008

Dave Ammons, spokesman for [Washington] Secretary of State Sam Reed's office, said in an e-mail to the Herald that the state's position is that Reed is not required and does not have the authority to investigate the qualifications of candidates for president and vice president.

"Under state law, the Republican and Democratic tickets are automatically placed on the fall ballot after the national party conventions," Ammons said. "Other tickets can qualify by having 1,000 registered Washington voters sign petitions at conventions. The state Elections Division examines the signatures, but does not investigate the qualifications of the candidates."

The lawsuit claims that Reed has known about questions concerning Obama's eligibility since September, but did nothing to determine whether Obama was a lawful candidate.

The claims rest on Obama's alleged failure to provide a certificate of live birth from his home state of Hawaii. Court documents say Obama instead has published a document called a Certification of Live Birth, which the suit claims does not prove Obama was born on American soil.

The suit also claims Obama was adopted by a stepfather in Indonesia and took the legal name Barry Soetoro, and that Barack Hussein Obama was not his legal name when he filed as a candidate in Washington. The claims are based on school records published on the TV show Inside Edition, according to court documents.

http://www.tri-cityherald.com/kennewick ... 06848.html

That was a very fair article... no bias, no disinformazione,
no scoffing, no "legal experts predict," no editorializing.

"There is a tide in the affairs of men,
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries."
-- Brutus in Julius Caesar, by William Shakespeare

The tide is now turning in the affairs of men.

Another Obama Birth Certificate Case Heads To U.S. Supreme Court...
Posted by: Matt Bruce | 12/07/2008 5:20 AM


6 Comments using Intense Debate
Another Barack Obama Birth Certificate Case Heads To U.S. Supreme Court...

Press Release: Lightfoot v Bowen...

Mission Viejo, Ca. (NS/OrlyTaitz) -

Let me first start by saying I recieved a phonecall from Attorney Dr. Orly Taitz who will be in Washington, DC Monday December the 8th to file papers about her lawsuit which involves Barack Obama and his birth certificate...

On December 2nd a Petition for an extraordinary Writ of Mandamus was
filed in the Supreme Court of California. This petition (as seen in
the attachment) states that Mr. Obama has not proven his "natural born
citizen" status and cannot be sworn as a president of the United
States and the commander in Chief. There are 7 plaintiffs in this
case and they include Vice Presidential candidate for Ron Paul, on the
ballot in CA, Ms Gail Lightfoot, 4 electors and two registered
voters...

A number of plaintiffs in this action are veterans and former
servicemen, that are concerned about a prospect of Mr Obama becoming
the Commander in Chief of the US army, without providing any
information, as to his citizenship at birth and currently,
particularly citizenship of Indonesia, Kenya and Great Britain (Kenya
was a British colony in 1961, at the time of Mr. Obama's birth)
without providing his immigration records, passports or even as much
as the original birth certificate from Hawaii, that is supposed to
show the name of the hospital and the name and the signature of the
doctor, that can be verified against the vital records from the
hospital, Within two days of filing on Friday 12.05.08. at 9:45 PM,
the Supreme court of California has issued a denial, that will allow
the attorney on the case, Ms. Orly Taitz, an Application for Emergency
Stay in the Supreme Court of the United States as early as Monday, the
8Th of December. The case will be reviewed by the Supreme Court Judge
Anthony Kennedy...

PDF file of the petition can be found on:

http://drorly.blogspot.com/...

More information on the case will be provided at the press conference
at the National Press Club in the Washington DC, to be held on
12.08.08. at 1:30 Eastern time...

Ms. Taitz is also one of two attorneys, representing Ambassador Alan
Keyes et all against Ms. Bowen, CA Secretary of State et all. This
case will be heard in CA Superior court prior to the Certification of
votes...

(pdf file of Keyes v Bowen is also on the drorly.blogspot.com)...

Ms. Taitz has also requested that any supporters of this issue that can present at the National Press Club in Washington, DC please show up to show their support of finding out the truth once and for all about Barack Obama being 'eligible' and meeting the Constitutional requirements required to be our next President...

Orly Taitz, Esq...

26302 La Paz ste 211
Mission Viejo, Ca 92691

To hear more, including interviews about the Obama birth certificate case, go to:

http://thecaptainsamerica.com

http://www.redcounty.com/national/2008/ ... ertificat/