Thread: Barack Obama's citizenship questioned

Originally Posted by MinutemanCDC_SC

Originally Posted by HighlanderJuan

I've figured out that I am very prejudiced against progressives. Is that bad?

It's not prejudice if it's founded on personal experience or objective observation.
I'm somewhat predisposed against rattlesnakes, even though not all of them strike.

They say that one evidence of insanity is believing that everyone else is crazy except yourself . . .

and present company, of course, and Farah, Taitz, Donofrio, Apuzzo, Berg, Dr. Alan Keyes, Maj. Cook, Cpt. Barnett, Bob Unruh@WND, Janet Porter, Michael Savage, Mark McGrew@Pravda, Mychal Massie, Phil@TRSL, nearly half-a-million signers of the "Where's the Birth Certificate" petition, several million other unnamed patriots in the U.S., possibly a billion people in the Eastern hemisphere . . .

Maybe not "everyone else" is really crazy.

There is a forum going on at the Orange County Register Orly Taitz article ( http://tinyurl.com/yf34jht ) in which I seem to be the only poster that has any idea what is going on. It is truly amazing. I thought conservative Orange County was smarter than that.

And the lib strikes are super. I can tell they usually have their own way on these forums. So, if any of you want to join in the fun, you're certainly welcome.

Well, you're welcome by me, but maybe not by the others.

Originally Posted by HighlanderJuan

Originally Posted by MinutemanCDC_SC

Originally Posted by HighlanderJuan

I've figured out that I am very prejudiced against progressives. Is that bad?

It's not prejudice if it's founded on personal experience or objective observation.
I'm somewhat predisposed against rattlesnakes, even though not all of them strike.

They say that one evidence of insanity is believing that everyone else is crazy except yourself . . .

and present company, of course, and Farah, Taitz, Donofrio, Apuzzo, Berg, Dr. Alan Keyes, Maj. Cook, Cpt. Barnett, Bob Unruh@WND, Janet Porter, Michael Savage, Mark McGrew@Pravda, Mychal Massie, Phil@TRSL, nearly half-a-million signers of the "Where's the Birth Certificate" petition, several million other unnamed patriots in the U.S., possibly a billion people in the Eastern hemisphere . . .

Maybe not "everyone else" is really crazy.

There is a forum going on at the Orange County Register Orly Taitz article ( http://tinyurl.com/yf34jht ) in which I seem to be the only poster that has any idea what is going on. It is truly amazing. I thought conservative Orange County was smarter than that.

And the lib strikes are super. I can tell they usually have their own way on these forums. So, if any of you want to join in the fun, you're certainly welcome.

Well, you're welcome by me, but maybe not by the others.

Highlander, logged in to OC Register and had my fun poking the liberal fools.

Originally Posted by TexasBorn

Highlander, logged in to OC Register and had my fun poking the liberal fools.

I responded. What did you think of the article? Fair? Slanted? I went on when comments were on page 7, and all of the following pages have occurred during the last two days - mostly my fault, or so I am accused.

There's supposed to be a follow-up article on Taitz this weekend (Sunday edition).

I was reading the comments on the OC and am just curious as to Martin Skizeman is. This is the first time I've ever heard of him.

Originally Posted by Mayday

I was reading the comments on the OC and am just curious as to Martin Skizeman is. This is the first time I've ever heard of him.

I have no idea. I've never heard of him before.

Originally Posted by HighlanderJuan

Originally Posted by Mayday

I was reading the comments on the OC and am just curious as to Martin Skizeman is. This is the first time I've ever heard of him.

I have no idea. I've never heard of him before.

Juan, yes that was me with a little twist to the name.

[quote=MinutemanCDC_SC]

Originally Posted by FreedomFirst

And don't forget the original research in that law review article out of Professor Chin, who found that there was a slip up in how the regular statutes governing births abroad to U.S. military were handling Panamanian births, such that a law in 1937 was enacted and made retroactive to 1904 to confer citizenship upon offspring of U.S. parents born down there. Meaning that, "at birth" it's entirely possible that John McCain wasn't even a citizen of the U.S. much less a natural born one.

[quote="[url=http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/citizen.asp]Snopes[/url]":yylpvaky][size=7]In the most detailed examination yet of Senator John McCain's eligibility to be president, a law professor at the University of Arizona has concluded that neither Mr. McCain's birth in 1936 in the Panama Canal Zone nor the fact that his parents were American citizens is enough to satisfy the constitutional requirement that the president must be a "natural-born citizen."

The analysis, by Prof. Gabriel J. Chin, focused on a 1937 law that has been largely overlooked in the debate over Mr. McCain's eligibility to be president. The law conferred citizenship on children of American parents born in the Canal Zone after 1904, and it made John McCain a citizen just before his first birthday. But the law came too late, Professor Chin argued, to make Mr. McCain a natural-born citizen.[/size][/quote]
[size=7]Prof. Chin confuses the "military birth abroad" issue with the "U.S. citizen birth in the PCZ" issue.

As explained by de Vattel, "Military birth abroad" entitles John McCain to nbc status, regardless of where he was born. But Panama also recognizes him as a Panamanian citizen, [i]ius soli[/i], which spoils any nbc status he would otherwise have had.

The 1937 "U.S. citizen birth in the Panama Canal Zone" rule doesn't take into account the special status of foreign-deployed U.S. military personnel. It doesn't apply to John McCain anyway; he was born in Colon, Republic of Panama, not in the PCZ.[/size][/quote:yylpvaky]

I think Professor Chin wrote his article at a time that McCain's claim of birth in the PCZ in a "military hospital" had not yet been disproven. Easy to understand why McCain made the claim: he hoped that a military base would somehow be viewed as U.S. territory under American jurisdiction and "American soil" ... of a fashion. Hollander didn't latch onto the original BC until sometime in late June or early July 2008, which might have been too late for Prof. Chin to revise the article he'd already submitted to U of Michigan law review for publication in its September special edition.

The passage of that 1790 statute, and then its quick repeal by 1795 stripping away any foreign soil births as permissible circumstances for consideration as 'nbc', would trump anything deVattel might have written IMHO as far as American jurisprudence and what should be weighted under it.

Interesting website devoted to military offspring seems to look only at the "citizenship" afforded to foreign births to military, and not any "natural born" subset:


[url="http://www.military-brats.com/transcripts.cfm"]http://www.military-brats.com/transcripts.cfm[/url]

Documentation of United States Citizens Born Abroad Who Acquire Citizenship At Birth
The birth of a child abroad to U.S. citizen parent(s) should be reported as soon as possible to the nearest American consular office for the purpose of establishing an official record of the child?s claim to U.S. citizenship at birth. The official record is in the form of a Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America. This document, referred to as the Consular Report of Birth or FS-240, is considered a basic United States citizenship document. An original FS-240 is furnished to the parent(s) at the time the registration is approved.

REPORTING THE BIRTH
A Consular Report of Birth can be prepared only at an American consular office overseas while the child is under the age of 18. Usually, in order to establish the child?s citizenship under the appropriate provisions of U.S. law, the following documents must be submitted:

(1) an official record of the child?s foreign birth;
(2) evidence of the parent(s)? U.S. citizenship (e.g., a certified birth certificate, current U.S. passport, or Certificate of Naturalization or Citizenship);
(3) evidence of the parents? marriage, if applicable; and
(4) affidavits of parent(s)? residence and physical presence in the United States.

In certain cases, it may be necessary to submit additional documents, including affidavits of paternity and support, divorce decrees from prior marriages, or medical reports of blood compatibility. All evidentiary documents should be certified as true copies of the originals by the registrar of the office wherein each document was issued. A service fee of $65 is prescribed under the provisions of Title 22 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Section 22.1, item 9, for a Consular Report of Birth.

NOTE: Consular Reports of Birth are not available for persons born in Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, the Panama Canal Zone before October 1, 1979, the Philippines before July 4, 1946, American Samoa, Guam, Swains Island, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, or the former U.S. Trust Territories of the Pacific Islands. Birth certificates for those areas, except the Panama Canal Zone, must be obtained from their respective offices of vital statistics. Panama Canal Zone birth certificates should be requested through the Vital Records Section of Passport Services (see address below.) The fees are the same as those for DS-1350.

You might want to double-check the exact language used by deVattel in connection with births to active military ... not sure I've seen anything he's written claim anything other than citizenship (not necessarily 'natural born') for such children.

2012 presidential primaries: Will a Democratic candidate for president be required to present his long form birth certificate by both the Democratic Pary and by the Secretary of State in each state before he will be allowed to put his name on Democratic Party primary ballots in each state that has presidential primaries?

I would think that after the controversy over Obama's Hawaii birth certificate during the 2008 presidential campaign, election officials in each state would demand that a 2012 presidential candidate present
his long form birth certificate before the candidate would be allowed to put his name on a primary ballot in each state.

[size=117]The following comments are excerpts from 30 minutes of interviews by William Wagener of On Second Thought TV, following the Oct. 5th Motion To Dismiss hearing before U.S. District Judge David Carter.

[William Wagener of OnSecondThoughtTV] talks with [Dr. Orly] Taitz, who is clearly deflated because she feels Judge Carter is not the same judge he was in July and September.

He didn’t wait to deal with fraud issue (SSNs etc).

He originally told the DOJ that cases challenging standing are rarely successful – like 96% of the time.

Discusses the subpoena – default and why she didn’t appeal them because the judge had assured her that it wouldn’t be thrown out on technicalities.

Wagener said the judge seemed different as well.

Taitz said there must have been some influence because he spoke/sounded completely different.

Taitz said she did not tell people to phone the Court.

Discusses the media – pro-Obama propaganda 24/7 from corrupt MSM.

We do “live in a totalitarian regimeâ€

[quote="MinutemanCDC_SC"][size=117]The following comments are excerpts from 30 minutes of interviews by William Wagener of On Second Thought TV, following the Oct. 5th Motion To Dismiss hearing before U.S. District Judge David Carter.

[William Wagener of OnSecondThoughtTV] talks with [Dr. Orly] Taitz, who is clearly deflated because she feels Judge Carter is not the same judge he was in July and September.

He didn’t wait to deal with fraud issue (SSNs etc).

He originally told the DOJ that cases challenging standing are rarely successful – like 96% of the time.

Discusses the subpoena – default and why she didn’t appeal them because the judge had assured her that it wouldn’t be thrown out on technicalities.

Wagener said the judge seemed different as well.

Taitz said there must have been some influence because he spoke/sounded completely different.

Taitz said she did not tell people to phone the Court.

Discusses the media – pro-Obama propaganda 24/7 from corrupt MSM.

We do “live in a totalitarian regimeâ€