Thread: My Plan - Comments would be very much appreciated!

Jose,

I'm sorry but I don't like this plan. Close the border now and kick anyone out that doesn't belong here. They can go home, apply and well what ever happens should happen. The money thing is a big hole for corruption and only drug smugglers could afford it anyway. No Thanks, Nice Try. I know you are trying to be a moderate and it won't work. Sorry.

Dixie

Jose, please don't misunderstand me. I'm very glad that you are willing to inform others that you are a legally residing citizen of the United States. As this is the case, you yourself do NOT have a problem aside from your concerns of being asked to prove your citizenship just as our counterpart mentioned above. However, I do NOT agree with your plan either.

It has now come down to a get-tough approach. Threats, coercion, incitement to violence, riots, publically announced intent to do harm to the U.S. economy and our governing bodies are pure unadulterated TERRORISM. There is no other label for it. The idea lately with these demonstrations has been to strike FEAR into the hearts of legislators in an attempt to influence what type of legislation is passed. Then when you take into consideration the majority of those in these demonstrations are here illegally and have knowingly violated our immigration and customs laws on top of the whole steaming pile of dung that this whole situation is - there is no playing patsy and yawning "ho hum" and just merrily moving about.

Lest people forget, this country has been attacked as of 2001. We cannot allow this immigration thing to continue due to the threats we face. We cannot allow just anyone and everyone to pour through our borders unchecked and undocumented any longer. And we cannot leave our borders "open" any longer. People need to be screened, have background checks done on them and need to come into contact with immigration officers before being allowed into this country.

All of us who have our "papers" have only to show them when asked until this situation is under control. It is not meant to be an affront to those of us here legally - but is meant to be JUSTICE for those who are here with the intent to do harm and to usurp our generosity and our dignity as real-life human beings who only seek peace, freedom and the American Dream which can only happen if we continue to be a nation with borders and laws and enforcement of those laws.

Hope this helps to clarify my position to you Jose. Nothing I've said was meant to be an attack against you but please know that tensions are very high over this issue all across the country. I have a large stake in this country of ours and I can get quite protective of her when anything sounds a little "skewed" or as lightly veiled threats.

Sorry I didn't make myself a little more clear in my previous posts on your thread.

Hey thats cool guys, I had reservations of posting here in the first place, and they were beginning to be well founded, but thanks for clarifying, and making me feel a little less threatened.

Like I've said before, I see this as no ones fault but our governments, they have allowed me to befriend illegals, coerce with them, pay them to clean my pool and fix my car, and cut my grass. Is there any surprise that I would have even the least bit of compassion for them?

The Government has allowed them to stay in our schools, and worse even stay in our prison system.

Now we have a crisis, our government got us into this mess in the first place, and has the responsibility to get us out of it. As much as I would like to pound my chest and say WE CITIZENS can do it, its just not possible IMHO. It is my opinion that is in MY best interest to not rip 8-20 million people from what we've come to know as the daily grind.

BUT like I said thats JUST ME. Thats probably not whats best for our country, and I do not have faith that our president knows whats best for our country. And I dont know that I've read anything that can, beyond a reasonable doubt, fix this crisis.

If this makes any sense to you guys SENDING THEM ALL BACK sounds as CRAZY as letting them all stay. So I have no clue what to do.

Look forward to reading your comments.

Well, my two cents worth...

- I disagree with selling either citizenship or right to work in the USA...period! Citizenship is earned, not sold or given away.

- I agree we have some bad problems with processing requests for citizenship, that part needs some serious overhaul!

- For those who "walked" over the border without asking permission, you are illegal, and an "Alien", go back or face deportation.

- For those of you still tracking, "Alien" status or being illegal in this country does not give you rights over anyone...in fact, you have no right, you are considered a criminal.

- If you are a criminal, then you should be treated accordingly.

Listen folks, I can see where we need to fix some of our laws, but to grant blanket citizenship or entry based upon the fact that some just crossed because they heard it was a better way is not the right reason. I have a daugther in law who has waited over 14 years for citizenship, has to go every so often to give her fingerprints, can't leave the country for fear of not being let back in, etc, etc. I would support her cause before I would listen to some common criminal that hasn't taken the time to file anything with the government. Think about it, what does that say about us as a people? So, here is what I suggest in counter to the original proposal in this string:

- If found to be in this country and no paperwork filed, you are defined as an "illegal alien", then you have a choice of 10 years in federal jail time, a $10,000.00 fine, and a free all expenses paid, one way flight to one of three locations, deep south Mexico, Bolivia, or Iraq (I figure at the rate their people are being killed, they need some more).

- If found to be in this country, you actually took the time to file for entry into this country, did all of the things to become a U.S. Citizen (i.e. learned english, read street signs, actually get a license), get a job and work hard, then I welcome you with open arms and I will call you my neighbor.

Look folks, two choices...no others...just my two cents worth...

Well Jose, there is something called the "Law of Supply and Demand" and it works properly at every turn.

The old argument that our economy will falter and collapse by sending all xxx million number of illegally residing foreigners back to their home countries is absolutely ffalse. I studied micro-economics and macro-economics during my college days and I am here to say that the economy wouldn't collapse but would rather adjust.

Cheap labor is bountiful. There is a huge demand for slaves in this nation. Our corporations have returned to using slaves so they may pocket more yet pay less. They don't care about human dignity. They don't care about human rights. As long as they can reap their fat salaries by abusing other human beings who are here against the laws we desire to uphold anyway, we will always have the problem of illegal immigration.

Cheap labor at first drove down prices. But now we are finding that we have a deflated labor income base yet companies are now starting to charge more and more for the goods and services out of greed. Wages are down yet prices are going up. Because of their greed and their injustices being visited upon these poor folk from South of the border, we are starting to finally realize we aren't really benefitting from the lower prices anymore while at the same time human beings are being sacrificed at the altar of stockholders' synogogues.

If cheap labor dried up immediately, companies would be forced to relinquish some of their excessive profits back into the labor market if they desire to survive. This means that in order to get American workers to do some of these jobs, the wage scales would have to be increased. The companies may raise prices yet again, but they would also have to raise wages at the same time in order to get adequate numbers of workers.

It would at first appear that wages would then be higher AND prices of goods and services would also be higher. In reality, the economic base would be higher yet we would essentially be in the same conditions we are in now. Everything would just be higher, but the game would still be played on the same economic playing field.

Unfortunately, nothing in the way of economics can be forecast so neatly. There are variables of course, so the above hypothetical situation wouldn't necessarily be 100% correct. Why? Because we now have NAFTA, GATT and other trading agreements.

Companies who remain so greedy as to feel the "need for slave labor" will inevitably move their operations to other nations and pay pennies compared to what they would have had to pay their American counterparts. Thanks to NAFTA, GATT and other profiteering arrangements governments have allowed - our companies can move overseas, produce products and then ship them back into their home country for excessively huge profits.

The cure for the present quagmire would require simultaneous prosecution of employers here in the United States for hiring (and mistreating) illegally residing foreigners, the closing off of our borders while we sort through those who are already here as we deport the majority but screen and accept a select few, AND doing all that is necessary to make moving companies overseas very, very unattractive.

With those three well calculated and executed plans of attack, the quagmire would thus be reduced to a slight pain in the buttocks. Sure, there would still be problems. Every solution brings yet a new challenge. But I'm willing to take a calculated shot that the problems would be far less expensive and intensive to deal with as they are now.

So with much logical reasoning, then, it is safe to say that we could deport as many as 16 Million of the estimated 20 Million and still have the "cream of the crop" workers and contributors left. Four million of the hardest working, most highly educated and biggest contributors to the societyof the United States would remain.

This worker base could then live, work and pass on as any other American who lives out his/her life. Eventually, as loss by aging occurs, the borders could be "cracked open" a bit and immigration could occur at a drastically lower rate than we have been dealing with up until this point in time.

It would be easy to write an entire book on all of this stuff Jose, and perhaps I should one of these days so as to dispell the myths that illegal immigration is necessary for the good of our nation. Illegal immigration is harmful. Well-regulated immigration is a win-win situation for both immigrant and nation.

There really are major differences between the signatures off the two here. People just don't seem to understand - or they choose to remain blinded to the facts due to the big $$$ signs in their eyes.

Actually, I think the whole situation is the result of BOTH lack of understanding and greed.

Hopefully this can be understood. When a person has a high-level understanding of a topic, it becomes very difficult to distill it down into something that can make sense to someone who hasn't been through the education or experience.

Feel free to comment or ask any questions. But for the most part, I do believe this article here should make a huge difference in the lives of many when it comes to understanding the problem and the enemy we face.

Reciprocity-
If this in fact turns out to be an invasion, I will eat some crow, and you can give my your address, (MOD EDIT)


ConcernedVet-
You are correct businesses exploit them, but again, our governmnent KNOWS which businesses are using BOGUS social securities and they refuse to act on it. No one to blame but our government.

I worked in construction for a number of years and I'm familiar with the numbers here in TX. I am having a house built, its going to cost me $250,000, in TX that gets you a pretty nice house, based on what you've said I dont beleive $20-$30 an hour can build me this house at $250,000. At that rate I would be paying upwards of $400,000. Now most people would say, you know what if thats the price I would have to pay to send all illegal aliens back then so be it. Frankly I dont wanna finance that much for the rest of my life.

I realize I am sounding a lot like the FARMERS back during the slavery period, but hey, in this life its all about MY COUNTRY, MY FAMILY, and ME!

Now the truth comes out, I married an illegal, and I "FIXED" her papers.

I remember paying a fine for her being here illegally, it was $1,000 to be exact. This is where the basis from my original plan comes from.

Here is another cause for my concern, I drive down to Mexico to hang out with her family from time to time, we had started a petition to allow them to enter legally, that was 6 years ago we have, 4 years left on a 10 year application process to have her sisters join us up here.

Now if this new legislation is passed, with all the changes it incurs, I do not want to get pushed "FURTHER" back to the end of the line. Or have it denied altogether.

Jose,

Also a Texan -

I don't want to ' send' them back.

I want to cut off their jobs and their social services (except for emergencies).

Those two things would have a lot of them returning voluntarily.

Now you kinda got me a little upset when you said you 'didn't want to finance a 400,000 home. Of course you don't.

But you don't seem to mind that our children and granchildren will be paying a very high price for that for generations to come.

Here in Texas, many people made/make money off illegals - and got cheap labor and cheap houses built. At least it was cheap to them. Texas, and Texans have paid and will continue to pay a very high price for that.

Many, many Texans could have become wealthy through working illegals - but did have the integrity to not put money before their children's future, their country's future and their own morals.

Sorry about the soapbox - I just get tired of hearing people trying to justify some things for which there is no justification.

nnTrixie, your right, and I acknowledge it in my post. I am guilty of the exploitation, is it by choice, no, I dont think there is a FULLY LEGAL costruction company that can quote the job for me, we are in North Texas after all.

Now if there was a "No {mod edit} Friday" or a "No {mod edit}Wednesday" then maybe I could take advantage of those two days to get my house built.

Racial slurs will not be tolerated. Please read the rules.

I don't use the kind of words you do to refer to the illegals -

I do realize that it would be very hard to find a construction company to build a house for you without using illegals - I think it could be done, but it would take time and as you say - more money for you. As for the citizens of America, we would benefit from legal, taxpaying workers who spend their money here rather than sending it out of the country.

In the long run, your house may not be cheaper, even for you. The costs of illegals have caused property taxes to escalate beyond belief and other 'fees & permits' are higher. So, your economical house may not be as economical as you think.


The point I was making - it isn't the illegals only who are being exploited (and many of them are not), it is the American people that are being exploited.

Deport Illegals. Don't shillyshally. Build the WALL...build it HIGH...build it STRONG...GUARD it.

I'm tired of the very word 'illegal'. Tired of the government which does zip about it. Tired of being threatened in our streets. Tired of the whole danged mess.

Anyone that supports anything illegal is walking on the fightin' side of me.

There! That's where I stand

MJ